Tell me if I have this right about your idea of what happens in heaven

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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JohnB said:
"
Some time later, the LORD spoke to Abram in a vision and said to him, “Do not be afraid, Abram, for I will protect you, and your reward will be great.”

But Abram replied, “O Sovereign LORD, what good are all your blessings when I don’t even have a son? Since you’ve given me no children, Eliezer of Damascus, a servant in my household, will inherit all my wealth. You have given me no descendants of my own, so one of my servants will be my heir.”

Abram's response to GOD's promise was.....thanks, but no thanks, not interested. I want a son, not more rewards. He was pouring out his heart to the LORD.
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God also told Abraham that He would be his reward. The greatest gift God can give is Himself. Seems John 3:16 speaks to this. And I imagine if you ask Abraham now which he prefers, Jesus or Isaac, I feel confident his answer would be Jesus.
I'm not going to continue because it has become apparent to me that no matter what I say you have more rebuttals than an insurance salesman. But I will keep praying for you.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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JohnB said:
"has to solely support for the rest of her life ".....he pays the brides price....50 shekels of silver. It's not for life. About the marriage, in any marriage Jesus was clear it was meant for life. It wasn't a punishment.
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He had to support her as wife for the rest of her life, because thats what you do when you have a wife. He pays the father the silver, but the father did not have to give her to him. Also he could never divorce her for any reason ever.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#243
So basically he has a wife that he has to support but may never have the benefits of having her as a wife.
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Locoponydirtman said:
He had to support her as wife for the rest of her life, because thats what you do when you have a wife. He pays the father the silver, but the father did not have to give her to him. Also he could never divorce her for any reason ever.
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That happens in ANY marriage, doesn't matter if they have sex before or after marriage. You want to really cut down on fornication in the church, tell them the consequences.
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Cameron143 said:
God also told Abraham that He would be his reward. The greatest gift God can give is Himself. Seems John 3:16 speaks to this. And I imagine if you ask Abraham now which he prefers, Jesus or Isaac, I feel confident his answer would be Jesus.
I'm not going to continue because it has become apparent to me that no matter what I say you have more rebuttals than an insurance salesman. But I will keep praying for you.
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You miss the whole point of Abraham's plea to GOD. He wasn't interested in anything else GOD had to offer, he wanted a son.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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See,
Look at what he says versus what he does. They are not congruent.

He says he doesn't want to be alone...that this is the sole majority reason he wants a wife.
BUT
All his focus is on himself and about seeking his sexual gratification. Licensing any and all forms of it by deliberately misinterpreting scripture.

So...God will give him neither. And if somehow he does gain a woman willing to have physical intimacy....he likely will come up with a social disease AND she will claim that he sexually assaulted her...so he will be engaged in a lawsuit and poor no matter how long he works.


I've seen similar things happen before a LOT.
 
JohnB

JohnB

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JohnDB said:
See,
Look at what he says versus what he does. They are not congruent.

He says he doesn't want to be alone...that this is the sole majority reason he wants a wife.
BUT
All his focus is on himself and about seeking his sexual gratification. Licensing any and all forms of it by deliberately misinterpreting scripture.

So...God will give him neither. And if somehow he does gain a woman willing to have physical intimacy....he likely will come up with a social disease AND she will claim that he sexually assaulted her...so he will be engaged in a lawsuit and poor no matter how long he works.


I've seen similar things happen before a LOT.
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"So...God will give him neither. "....you know that for a fact? You're telling me what GOD will or will not do. You sound like many Christians.....if you just put Jesus first, if you just did more for Jesus, if you just prayed longer and harder. It's always on me to do something.....YET Romans 9:15 says

For God said to Moses,
“I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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JohnB said:
You miss the whole point of Abraham's plea to GOD. He wasn't interested in anything else GOD had to offer, he wanted a son.
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While I do agree that in that moment that was Abraham's greatest desire, it shouldn't have been. His greatest desire should have been God. When he raised the knife above Isaac, he had reached the point where God was most important to him.
This is the place God wants to bring us all. God wants to bring us to this point because it represents our highest good and is also where God is most glorified. It seems having a family is more important to you than God. Because God loves you and desires your highest good, He seems to have withheld something good that would take you farther from Him in favor of something supremely more valuable. That you cannot understand this is what causes your distress.
But it doesn't seem to matter to you what is actually true. Thus, until you are ready to accept truth, you will continue to struggle. But I'll continue to pray for you. Blessings.
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Cameron143 said:
While I do agree that in that moment that was Abraham's greatest desire, it shouldn't have been. His greatest desire should have been God. When he raised the knife above Isaac, he had reached the point where God was most important to him.
This is the place God wants to bring us all. God wants to bring us to this point because it represents our highest good and is also where God is most glorified. It seems having a family is more important to you than God. Because God loves you and desires your highest good, He seems to have withheld something good that would take you farther from Him in favor of something supremely more valuable. That you cannot understand this is what causes your distress.
But it doesn't seem to matter to you what is actually true. Thus, until you are ready to accept truth, you will continue to struggle. But I'll continue to pray for you. Blessings.
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"While I do agree that in that moment that was Abraham's greatest desire, it shouldn't have been. His greatest desire should have been God ".......so you really think Abraham was wrong? GOD didn't seem to think so. GOD had compassion on him. You would not have.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#250
JohnB said:
That happens in ANY marriage, doesn't matter if they have sex before or after marriage. You want to really cut down on fornication in the church, tell them the consequences.
Click to expand...
Except the father did not have to actually give her to you, but you still had to support her.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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JohnB said:
"While I do agree that in that moment that was Abraham's greatest desire, it shouldn't have been. His greatest desire should have been God ".......so you really think Abraham was wrong? GOD didn't seem to think so. GOD had compassion on him. You would not have.
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You don't seem to understand God very much. You seem to think God exists for you. The truth is, you exist for Him. What you want isn't important. What God wants is. But the super groovy thing is...what God wants is actually what is your highest good.
You desire a family. Nothing wrong with that. But God knows, as well as anyone who follows your threads, that having a family for you would be a disaster. Not only that, it would lead you away from God. So God is actually saving you and others from harm and trying to get you to see His unparalleled value. He even has people patiently go through thread after thread with you explaining to you your errors, often while being demeaned, to no avail.
To your question, was Abraham wrong? Yes, and no. He wasn't wrong to desire a son. He was horribly wrong desiring a son more than God. God is all desirable. No one else comes anywhere close.
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Cameron143 said:
You don't seem to understand God very much. You seem to think God exists for you. The truth is, you exist for Him. What you want isn't important. What God wants is. But the super groovy thing is...what God wants is actually what is your highest good.
You desire a family. Nothing wrong with that. But God knows, as well as anyone who follows your threads, that having a family for you would be a disaster. Not only that, it would lead you away from God. So God is actually saving you and others from harm and trying to get you to see His unparalleled value. He even has people patiently go through thread after thread with you explaining to you your errors, often while being demeaned, to no avail.
To your question, was Abraham wrong? Yes, and no. He wasn't wrong to desire a son. He was horribly wrong desiring a son more than God. God is all desirable. No one else comes anywhere close.
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He was horribly wrong desiring a son more than God. Again you don't show any compassion for Abraham.

When it comes to marriage, GOD said, "It is not good for man to be alone. I will create for him a helpmate". That is GOD himself saying, I, GOD alone am not enough for man.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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JohnB said:
He was horribly wrong desiring a son more than God. Again you don't show any compassion for Abraham.

When it comes to marriage, GOD said, "It is not good for man to be alone. I will create for him a helpmate". That is GOD himself saying, I, GOD alone am not enough for man.
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That's the second time you've falsely accused me of something. You have a false sense of compassion because you don't understand real value. Having an intimate relationship with God is so exceedingly more desirable than any other relationship, I desire the first for people. You desire good for people. That's awesome. Why don't you desire best for them?
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Cameron143 said:
That's the second time you've falsely accused me of something. You have a false sense of compassion because you don't understand real value. Having an intimate relationship with God is so exceedingly more desirable than any other relationship, I desire the first for people. You desire good for people. That's awesome. Why don't you desire best for them?
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I just used your own quotes against you. You said so yourself, Abraham was wrong.
 
Truthnightmare

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We will be as the angels, and whenever an Angel is described in the Bible, it (he) is always described as a young male, always in the masculine gender.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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JohnB said:
I just used your own quotes against you. You said so yourself, Abraham was wrong.
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You read what you wanted to read. I said Abraham wasn't wrong in desiring a son, but he was wrong in desiring a son more than desiring God. So you misrepresented what I said and then demeaned me. So...are you saying it's better to prefer things before God?
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Truthnightmare said:
We will be as the angels, and whenever an Angel is described in the Bible, it (he) is always described as a young male, always in the masculine gender.
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In Matthew 22:30 Jesus says that there will be no marriage in heaven because we “will be like the angels in heaven.” This verse states that angels do not marry, but it stops short of commenting on their “gender.” Nothing in Jesus’ statement can be taken to imply that angels are masculine, feminine, or neuter.
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Cameron143 said:
You read what you wanted to read. I said Abraham wasn't wrong in desiring a son, but he was wrong in desiring a son more than desiring God. So you misrepresented what I said and then demeaned me. So...are you saying it's better to prefer things before God?
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I never said he did not desire GOD, but he wasn't interested in any of GOD's rewards. He wanted a son. You were the one who calls him wrong.
 
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