There will be no Rapture!!!
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After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. - Revelation 4:1-2
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. - Revelation 5:1-4
@cv5, it is JOHN, not the church on earth, who enters through that door and comes before the throne of God.
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. - Revelation 5:1-4
@cv5, it is JOHN, not the church on earth, who enters through that door and comes before the throne of God.
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Ok, I will refresh your memory:
"but that is not the kind of WRATH the CHURCH faces and YOU know it.
The only WRATH the CHURCH could ever face, is the AC, but we are gone before then.
look at the tragedies today of WRATH [earthquakes-volcanoes-tsunami-etc-starvation-locust]
that is against humanity, not the Church. "
You said that the Church faces AC. Right? And that such was the "wrath" the Church would face, right? How else was I supposed to take that?
MM
"but that is not the kind of WRATH the CHURCH faces and YOU know it.
The only WRATH the CHURCH could ever face, is the AC, but we are gone before then.
look at the tragedies today of WRATH [earthquakes-volcanoes-tsunami-etc-starvation-locust]
that is against humanity, not the Church. "
You said that the Church faces AC. Right? And that such was the "wrath" the Church would face, right? How else was I supposed to take that?
MM
Sorry, but I don't have time to do all your homework for you. The actual reference is out there on the web, and I cannot argue a negative. In other words, I cannot argue against a falsehood that has no basis within scripture, and is actually antithetical to the words of Christ.
John 9:39 And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind."
Nowhere does Jesus speak of having reversed the world's slide into deeper and deeper disobedience, therefore his teaching on that is a false teaching.
MM
John 9:39 And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind."
Nowhere does Jesus speak of having reversed the world's slide into deeper and deeper disobedience, therefore his teaching on that is a false teaching.
MM
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Actually I have read AH and know exactly where it is found https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103521.htm
i have went and reread Revelation Chapters 4 and 5 a couple more times to search where the CHURCH is at.
It's all about 24 Elders and myriads and myriads of Angels.
Are the Pre-Tribbers trying to claim the CHURCH is now ANGELS?
see what happens when a LIE is created, it causes one to do a complete thorough research, and then you discover FOUL PLAY.
that must be what Pre-Tribbers are claiming here, the Church, becomes Angels. It's the [[[ONLY WAY]]] to fit the CHURCH into Chapters 4 and 5
It's all about 24 Elders and myriads and myriads of Angels.
Are the Pre-Tribbers trying to claim the CHURCH is now ANGELS?
see what happens when a LIE is created, it causes one to do a complete thorough research, and then you discover FOUL PLAY.
that must be what Pre-Tribbers are claiming here, the Church, becomes Angels. It's the [[[ONLY WAY]]] to fit the CHURCH into Chapters 4 and 5
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can anyone, who believes in Pre-Trib Rapture, show me where the CHURCH is at in Revelation Chapters 4 and 5?
i truly would be more than obliged because I do not see the Church anywhere, but yet, you claim it is here.
in fact, your whole Doctrine literally depends upon the CHURCH being in Chapters 4 and 5.
So, to prove your Doctrine, can you show me the Church in those Chapters?
i truly would be more than obliged because I do not see the Church anywhere, but yet, you claim it is here.
in fact, your whole Doctrine literally depends upon the CHURCH being in Chapters 4 and 5.
So, to prove your Doctrine, can you show me the Church in those Chapters?
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why are Christians not subject to the Tribulation. Tribulation is just an Event that lasts 7 years. Christians, in the end, are not subject to Wrath, is how it should be explained.
Nehemiah,
in the beginning of Tribulation, the AC, makes a 1 week Covenant with the Jews.
the AC [[allows]] the Jews to build their Temple, begin Daily Sin Offering, and to Worship YAHWEH, the MOST HIGH GOD.
the AC [[allows this]] until midpoint or Day 1290, when he STOPS the Daily Sin offering.
i ask, where's the WRATH at during the first half of Tribulation when the AC allows people to WORSHIP the Most High God?
and since the AC is ALLOWING worship of the Most High God, because there is NO WRATH during this period, why must the Church escape [there's NO WRATH] to escape from?
Nehemiah,
in the beginning of Tribulation, the AC, makes a 1 week Covenant with the Jews.
the AC [[allows]] the Jews to build their Temple, begin Daily Sin Offering, and to Worship YAHWEH, the MOST HIGH GOD.
the AC [[allows this]] until midpoint or Day 1290, when he STOPS the Daily Sin offering.
i ask, where's the WRATH at during the first half of Tribulation when the AC allows people to WORSHIP the Most High God?
and since the AC is ALLOWING worship of the Most High God, because there is NO WRATH during this period, why must the Church escape [there's NO WRATH] to escape from?
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The fourth chapter of Revelation is frequently used by pretribbers in studies of the book of Revelation to demonstrate that the church will be gone to heaven during the great tribulation. They argue that "the rapture" has occurred and that the church is not on earth any longer. This is false doctrine. Actually, it is JOHN, not the church on earth, who enters through that door in heaven and comes before the throne of God.
Note: In Revelation 4 and 5, it is John talking. The verses below do not refer to the church.
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. - Revelation 4:1-2
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. - Revelation 5:1-4
Note: In Revelation 4 and 5, it is John talking. The verses below do not refer to the church.
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. - Revelation 4:1-2
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. - Revelation 5:1-4
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only 2 Groups are standing before the Throne in Revelation Chapters 6-18, those Saved by the 144k and the Beheaded.
and the 144k don't even begin to preach until the Two Witnesses are gone, which don't happen until after mid trib [Revelation 14]
and those saved are not Standing before God until AFTER mid Trib.
and then the second group is mentioned 4 Chapters later, the BEHEADED!
the 144k are not even a point of focus [mentioned in Chapter 7] until Chapter 14
the 144k don't even Preach until the TWO WITNESSES are gone.
Two Witnesses are not Gone until midpoint Trib.
and the 144k Follow
and then we see those Saved from their preaching before the Throne of God
the others before God are the Beheaded
ALL happens AFTER midpoint trib
once again, SHOW ME THE CHURCH?
and the 144k don't even begin to preach until the Two Witnesses are gone, which don't happen until after mid trib [Revelation 14]
and those saved are not Standing before God until AFTER mid Trib.
and then the second group is mentioned 4 Chapters later, the BEHEADED!
the 144k are not even a point of focus [mentioned in Chapter 7] until Chapter 14
the 144k don't even Preach until the TWO WITNESSES are gone.
Two Witnesses are not Gone until midpoint Trib.
and the 144k Follow
and then we see those Saved from their preaching before the Throne of God
the others before God are the Beheaded
ALL happens AFTER midpoint trib
once again, SHOW ME THE CHURCH?
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