Why… we are not… and will not… go through the Tribulation.
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It ended in 70 AD and that event, the great tribulation, has nothing to do with Jesus comments in the 3 accounts regarding his second coming or end of the age. And what about the language used as mentioned? He was clearly addressing those he was speaking to, i.e.; "you". And also, you are apparently hung up on the word "immediately", even though you claim that all 3 accounts must be viewed together, to which I agree, and that such should always be done when looking at any biblical topic so as to not cherry pick; but as inferred above, you tend to rely on Matt while ignoring Luke and Mark, which give clarity to what Matt is really saying.
The tribulation happened and ended and has nothing whatsoever to do with the end of the age. Those comments made by the Lord must be looked at and extracted separately. You stated previously that the events clearly started in circa 70 AD but haven't yet concluded. The great tribulation events captured in scripture solely describe those of 70 AD. Note in Matthew 24:30 it says "and THEY shall see the Son of man cowing in the clouds if heaven---". And likewise in Mark 13:26, and exactly the same words in Luke 21:27. Why does it say THEY if it's part of the description of fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD as you seem to partially agree with? It can't possibly be the "they" of the 70 AD fall of Jerusalem as described in these scriptures. It's a future 'they' and that's how the scriptures must be separated, to segregate the end of the age from the great tribulation of Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. The question posed by Jesus' deciples in Luke and Mark say nothing about the end of the age or the second coming yet Jesus comments deal with the second coming in all 3. When looking at Matthew and leaning heavily on what it says as opposed to Luke and Mark, it will confuse and mislead you as it appears to have done in your case and many others. Luke and Mark clarify; Matthew only will confuse.
The tribulation happened and ended and has nothing whatsoever to do with the end of the age. Those comments made by the Lord must be looked at and extracted separately. You stated previously that the events clearly started in circa 70 AD but haven't yet concluded. The great tribulation events captured in scripture solely describe those of 70 AD. Note in Matthew 24:30 it says "and THEY shall see the Son of man cowing in the clouds if heaven---". And likewise in Mark 13:26, and exactly the same words in Luke 21:27. Why does it say THEY if it's part of the description of fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD as you seem to partially agree with? It can't possibly be the "they" of the 70 AD fall of Jerusalem as described in these scriptures. It's a future 'they' and that's how the scriptures must be separated, to segregate the end of the age from the great tribulation of Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. The question posed by Jesus' deciples in Luke and Mark say nothing about the end of the age or the second coming yet Jesus comments deal with the second coming in all 3. When looking at Matthew and leaning heavily on what it says as opposed to Luke and Mark, it will confuse and mislead you as it appears to have done in your case and many others. Luke and Mark clarify; Matthew only will confuse.
Well you ask me bluntly so I'll reply bluntly so I'll probably catch flak for what I'm saying...
The secular government of Israel like in 1 Samuel 8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_samuel/8.htm that received it's deadly wound in ad70 as Jesus foretold it would. Not the new Jerusalem that descends from Heaven but the one that refused Jesus Christ as it's king. Those dwelling on the earth made an image of the beast that was,was not yet is in 1948 but not of the Jerusalem in Heaven, rather instead the Israel that received the deadly wound and was in the pit after ad70....it's a tale of two Israel's...
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One other point to make as an addendum to my above post 83. If you look at Matt 24:3, you see two separate questions being asked by the deciples; one about the temple destruction and a separate one about the second coming signs/end of the world. Two separate, unrelated events that most unfortunately think are not separate.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Ok.. I see that the reference to the prepared virgins with oil lamps is akin to storing up food/water even though I don’t think we would really live long enough to actually use it - since execution is slated for everyone who refuses the mark anyway . But ok… storing up our treasures in Heaven seems more important to me in the long run, in the grand scheme of things…. I apologize for the stupid question - probably why I don’t engage on these boards too much. I will return sticking with reading instead. 😜
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You have to consider the consequences of taking the mark of the beast though.
Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
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Oh, I also found this:
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So it shows that refusing the mark of the beast can result in a beheading = a death sentence.
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Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So it shows that refusing the mark of the beast can result in a beheading = a death sentence.
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Let's get back to discussing whether or not refusal of the mark means you die. Paul said some will survive the trib and be raptured. How can they take the mark and still be worthy of rapture given the scriptures you just posted about those who take the mark?
Refusing the mark is not a death sentence. It only means you cannot buy or sell ie: take part in the economy of the beast system.
Refusing the mark is not a death sentence. It only means you cannot buy or sell ie: take part in the economy of the beast system.
“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
Acts 14:21-22 KJV
Acts 14:21-22 KJV
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This sounds so familiar....
....didn't the snake say that Eve won't die if she ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
Every time the Bible talked about the mark of the beast, it was closely associated with worshipping the AC. So when someone will take the mark of beast, that is the seal over that person to show their allegiance to the AC. It is similar to the seal of the Holy Spirit over the Christian and refusing the mark of the beast shows their allegiance to God.
And Satan knows this. This is why he will move the AC and his one-world government to enforce killing anyone who refuses the mark of the beast.
But that is just physical death which the Lord Jesus has already conquered. We shouldn't be afraid of that. We should, instead be afraid of the far more dire consequences of taking the mark. Because it's not only physical death that will be dealt to those who take the mark. Those who take the mark will also face the second death by judgement of God.
Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Your posts sounds to me like you want to take the mark of the beast thinking it's safe to do so, but I personally wouldn't.
You asked how can there be Christians who survive the GT if they refuse the mark of the beast? Some Jews hid in Europe during WW2 and God chose to help protect them. I think God will choose to help some Christians hide successfully as well through to the Post-Trib Rapture. This is also a big world and the AC and one-world government won't be able to find everyone who is hiding, especially if they're smart about it.
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....didn't the snake say that Eve won't die if she ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
Every time the Bible talked about the mark of the beast, it was closely associated with worshipping the AC. So when someone will take the mark of beast, that is the seal over that person to show their allegiance to the AC. It is similar to the seal of the Holy Spirit over the Christian and refusing the mark of the beast shows their allegiance to God.
And Satan knows this. This is why he will move the AC and his one-world government to enforce killing anyone who refuses the mark of the beast.
But that is just physical death which the Lord Jesus has already conquered. We shouldn't be afraid of that. We should, instead be afraid of the far more dire consequences of taking the mark. Because it's not only physical death that will be dealt to those who take the mark. Those who take the mark will also face the second death by judgement of God.
Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Your posts sounds to me like you want to take the mark of the beast thinking it's safe to do so, but I personally wouldn't.
You asked how can there be Christians who survive the GT if they refuse the mark of the beast? Some Jews hid in Europe during WW2 and God chose to help protect them. I think God will choose to help some Christians hide successfully as well through to the Post-Trib Rapture. This is also a big world and the AC and one-world government won't be able to find everyone who is hiding, especially if they're smart about it.
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Accepting the mark is in essence pledging allegiance to the Antichrist. Satan does nothing original. The mark is his way of placing a "seal" upon people in direct defiance of God. Those who accept Satan's seal will be lost for eternity.
Rev 20:4
And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, NEITHER had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Rev 16:1-2
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, AND upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 20:4
And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, NEITHER had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Rev 16:1-2
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, AND upon them which worshipped his image.
Well, that is more what the worship is. The mark does literally place a mark of the AC on people, but it is to control their ability to buy and sell.
So, many people claim refusal of the mark means you will be killed but that isn't what the bible says. It says refusal to worship the image of the beast will result in death. Does not say that about the mark. Paul said some will be alive and remain, and they will be made immortal and raptured. They survived the trib and did not take the mark.
So, many people claim refusal of the mark means you will be killed but that isn't what the bible says. It says refusal to worship the image of the beast will result in death. Does not say that about the mark. Paul said some will be alive and remain, and they will be made immortal and raptured. They survived the trib and did not take the mark.
Note scripture states those who did not receive the mark upon their foreheads or hands were beheaded. Also, Rev 14 indicates those who do accept the mark will drink of the wine of the wrath of God being tormented for eternity.
Rev 20:4
And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, AND for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 14:9-11
If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 20:4
And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, AND for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 14:9-11
If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.