A Question about The Feasts

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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#81
So the second coming already happened? Heaven and Earth has passed and there is a new Earth? The kingdom of YHWH is in Jerusalem? There is no more death?

Revelation 21:1-27, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the heaven saying, “See, the Booth of Yah is with men, and He shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and Yah Himself shall be with them and be their Strength. “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away.” And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy.” And He said to me, “It is done!........"

You are conflating 2 different things, but Please explain to me how this has already happened
You are looking for a literal and physical demonstration of these things. But all the physical things exist to relay the true and spiritual reality. All the things you mention have been accomplished or at least begun spiritually.
For example, the new heavens and new earth are not literal, but represent new spiritual realities. Jesus presented His blood in heaven and cleansed it of the sin committed there. That's why shortly before His death, He said He saw Satan fall from heaven. No longer would the rebellious angels be allowed in the 3rd heaven. Further, He sat down at the right hand of the Father...Revelation 5...and because of His earthly activity is worthy to open the scroll that the new covenant could come forth.

I will return to this later and show the spiritual nature of the other things you have mentioned.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#82
You are looking for a literal and physical demonstration of these things. But all the physical things exist to relay the true and spiritual reality. All the things you mention have been accomplished or at least begun spiritually.
For example, the new heavens and new earth are not literal, but represent new spiritual realities. Jesus presented His blood in heaven and cleansed it of the sin committed there. That's why shortly before His death, He said He saw Satan fall from heaven. No longer would the rebellious angels be allowed in the 3rd heaven. Further, He sat down at the right hand of the Father...Revelation 5...and because of His earthly activity is worthy to open the scroll that the new covenant could come forth.

I will return to this later and show the spiritual nature of the other things you have mentioned.
If you could anwswer this when you get back or are able I would appreciate it.

So are you saying you don't believe there will be a literal kingdom or that Yahshua/Jesus wil literally retun and translate those in Him to live eternally?

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, (Isa 13:10; Isa 24:23, Eze 32:7-8, Joe 2:10, Joe 2:31, Joe 3:15) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. (Hag 2:6, Hag 2:21, Amo 5:20, Amo 8:9. Isa 34:4) “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, (Zec 12:10-14 and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds (Dan 7:13) of the heaven with power and much esteem. (Dan 7:14) “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, (Isa 27:13) and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, (Dan 7:2) from one end of the heavens to the other. (Deu 4:32.)”

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Elohim and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again (#G313) to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,...."

1st resurrection translated into spirit body

Rev 20:4-6, “And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to יהושע and because of the Word of the Mighty One, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of יהוה and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

2nd resurrection thrown into fire

Revelation 20:11-15, "And I saw a great white throne and Him who was sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and She’ol gave up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 And Death and She’ol were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelation 21:1-27, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Isaiah 26:19-20, “Let Your dead live, together with my dead body, let them arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; for Your dew is a dew of light, and let the earth give birth to the departed spirits. Go, my people, enter your rooms, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little while, until the displeasure is past.”

Hosea 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”

Daniel 12:1-3, “Now at that time Miḵa’yl shall stand up, the great head who is standing over the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as never was since there was a nation, until that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence. And those who have insight shall shine like the brightness of the expanse, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.”
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,094
6,885
113
62
#83
If you could anwswer this when you get back or are able I would appreciate it.

So are you saying you don't believe there will be a literal kingdom or that Yahshua/Jesus wil literally retun and translate those in Him to live eternally?

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, (Isa 13:10; Isa 24:23, Eze 32:7-8, Joe 2:10, Joe 2:31, Joe 3:15) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. (Hag 2:6, Hag 2:21, Amo 5:20, Amo 8:9. Isa 34:4) “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, (Zec 12:10-14 and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds (Dan 7:13) of the heaven with power and much esteem. (Dan 7:14) “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, (Isa 27:13) and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, (Dan 7:2) from one end of the heavens to the other. (Deu 4:32.)”

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Elohim and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again (#G313) to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,...."

1st resurrection translated into spirit body

Rev 20:4-6, “And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to יהושע and because of the Word of the Mighty One, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of יהוה and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

2nd resurrection thrown into fire

Revelation 20:11-15, "And I saw a great white throne and Him who was sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and She’ol gave up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 And Death and She’ol were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelation 21:1-27, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Isaiah 26:19-20, “Let Your dead live, together with my dead body, let them arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; for Your dew is a dew of light, and let the earth give birth to the departed spirits. Go, my people, enter your rooms, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little while, until the displeasure is past.”

Hosea 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”

Daniel 12:1-3, “Now at that time Miḵa’yl shall stand up, the great head who is standing over the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as never was since there was a nation, until that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence. And those who have insight shall shine like the brightness of the expanse, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.”
I'll try to answer some of these things. There is a lot here and flooding the zone with scripture and questions makes it more difficult to answer to your satisfaction. It is a complicated enough subject going point by point.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#84
I'll try to answer some of these things. There is a lot here and flooding the zone with scripture and questions makes it more difficult to answer to your satisfaction. It is a complicated enough subject going point by point.
I just wanted to provide Scripture to prove my view. All these ideas im going to present have many passages supporting them but

It's basically

Heaven and Earth passing

Yahshua/Jesus literally returning aka the 2nd coming

Those in Yah being translated to live eternally

The literal Kingdom of YHWH on Earth as Rev 21 says

Maybe make a new thread with these points so it does not derail this one, I dont know/
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,094
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#85
I just wanted to provide Scripture to prove my view. All these ideas im going to present have many passages supporting them but

It's basically

Heaven and Earth passing

Yahshua/Jesus literally returning aka the 2nd coming

Those in Yah being translated to live eternally

The literal Kingdom of YHWH on Earth as Rev 21 says

Maybe make a new thread with these points so it does not derail this one, I dont know/
I understand your view and the scriptures you believe support your position. If you already believe that there is no alternate understanding and you're position is "proven ", I'll forego the exercise. If you meant they undergird your current understanding, I'm happy to move forward.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#86
I understand your view and the scriptures you believe support your position. If you already believe that there is no alternate understanding and you're position is "proven ", I'll forego the exercise. If you meant they undergird your current understanding, I'm happy to move forward.
Ahh you always find a way to never prove your point and depart. You still never answered my first question to you days ago...

BUT If your view is correct you should be able to provide Scripture showing me.

If you can not then I get you wanting to depart without discussion proving your view.

The way I am, I study things out for months, multiple times before I am firm on a topic, if I have not done this I will say, im not firm for its not clear or I have not studied it out.

However, if the Scripture shows something, not just a single verse, but it can be found and proved, im open to it. BUT A KEY, is my questions, views and Scriptures have to be addressed, because one can not simple go or this verse here and ignore 20 others.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#87
Ahh you always find a way to never prove your point and depart. You still never answered my first question to you days ago...

BUT If your view is correct you should be able to provide Scripture showing me.

If you can not then I get you wanting to depart without discussion proving your view.

The way I am, I study things out for months, multiple times before I am firm on a topic, if I have not done this I will say, im not firm for its not clear or I have not studied it out.

However, if the Scripture shows something, not just a single verse, but it can be found and proved, im open to it. BUT A KEY, is my questions, views and Scriptures have to be addressed, because one can not simple go or this verse here and ignore 20 others.
I'm happy to answer the questions. But you said proved your point. I'll be using many of the same scriptures and explaining them differently. If you actually believe that the verses prove your point, then you are asking me to undergo an exercise of futility. So I'll ask again, do they undergird and inform your understanding or prove your point?
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#88
I'm happy to answer the questions. But you said proved your point. I'll be using many of the same scriptures and explaining them differently. If you actually believe that the verses prove your point, then you are asking me to undergo an exercise of futility. So I'll ask again, do they undergird and inform your understanding or prove your point?
This is how I can answer your question.

I have studied and prayed for understanding for many years, in those years I continue to learn therefore im open to hear anyone, but I take someone serious if they ignore my views without adressing them and ignore the Scriptures I post without adressing them. It has to be a 2 way disussion. and one Scripture does not cancel out 20 for example. The word of the certified men who spoke in the name of YHWH all agree with each other.

So finally f you are willing to have a 2 way discussion, point by point im open to it. But maybe in a new thread because I feel we are going deeper than just talking about celebrating the Feasts.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,094
6,885
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#89
This is how I can answer your question.

I have studied and prayed for understanding for many years, in those years I continue to learn therefore im open to hear anyone, but I take someone serious if they ignore my views without adressing them and ignore the Scriptures I post without adressing them. It has to be a 2 way disussion. and one Scripture does not cancel out 20 for example. The word of the certified men who spoke in the name of YHWH all agree with each other.

So finally f you are willing to have a 2 way discussion, point by point im open to it. But maybe in a new thread because I feel we are going deeper than just talking about celebrating the Feasts.
Almost everyone here has studied and prayed for years and desires truth. If you want to move to another thread that's fine with me. But if you don't begin with the understanding that the old covenant and everything in it are no longer, error will inevitably ensue.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
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#92
Almost everyone here has studied and prayed for years and desires truth. If you want to move to another thread that's fine with me. But if you don't begin with the understanding that the old covenant and everything in it are no longer, error will inevitably ensue.
Trying to force my starting point is not discussion, maybe that can be the first topic but its tied into what I already said because every one of them are spoken of in the OT and NT so I would say it is a main part of the discussion
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#93
Trying to force my starting point is not discussion, maybe that can be the first topic but its tied into what I already said because every one of them are spoken of in the OT and NT so I would say it is a main part of the discussion
I could earnestly care less where you start. But this was the crux of the argument I was putting forth...the old has passed away and the new has come in. The physical description of darkness and things rolling away is deconstructive and decreation language. It is the opposite of creation language where light appears and things come together.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
#94
I could earnestly care less where you start. But this was the crux of the argument I was putting forth...the old has passed away and the new has come in. The physical description of darkness and things rolling away is deconstructive and decreation language. It is the opposite of creation language where light appears and things come together.
Well if you want to start a new thread and state your views, maybe we can both prepare a very basic overview of our views and I will try to be the first post, and then we can discuss each point, including but not limited to, as if you would like to add any basic topics thats fine,

maybe also you can personal message me and we can decide on the basic topics and both let eachother know when we have a basic overview done, shouldnt take long.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,094
6,885
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#95
Well if you want to start a new thread and state your views, maybe we can both prepare a very basic overview of our views and I will try to be the first post, and then we can discuss each point, including but not limited to, as if you would like to add any basic topics thats fine,

maybe also you can personal message me and we can decide on the basic topics and both let eachother know when we have a basic overview done, shouldnt take long.
Ok. But will have to be this evening.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
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#96
Ok. But will have to be this evening.
Thats fine, I am goign to have to cook dinner but other than that my time is free, I currently have a knee injury and have been somewhat stuck on the couch! again I think it a good idea to personal message me (or I can you) and we can decide on the basic topics and both let eachother know when we have a basic overview done.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,094
6,885
113
62
#97
Thats fine, I am goign to have to cook dinner but other than that my time is free, I currently have a knee injury and have been somewhat stuck on the couch! again I think it a good idea to personal message me (or I can you) and we can decide on the basic topics and both let eachother know when we have a basic overview done.
You are welcome to message me.