Is it a moral or legal obligation to pay a debt to a bank?

[Duck]

That's a good point; but my point is just because something's constitutional doesn't mean it's automatically good and moral, any more than being legal makes something good and moral. The slave trade was constitutional for a long time. The Christian's standard should be God's word, not man's laws or the constitution.

agreed

 

[Duck]

Alcohol is in the 18th and 21th amendments of the U.S. Constitution.

The 18th was the prohibition and 21st repealed it, However, like pot, it is not given as a right in the constitution, as it granted states the right to regulate and sell, just like Pot.

 

[hornetguy]

I've never borrowed from banks or anywhere else, so clue me in- why do other people borrow in the first place?

To get something they cannot afford at the time. If you were newly married, would you have the money to pay cash for a house? It makes more sense to pay down a loan than to keep throwing money into the pit of rentals. You actually are "buying" something instead of renting it.

 

[hornetguy]

That's a good point; but my point is just because something's constitutional doesn't mean it's automatically good and moral, any more than being legal makes something good and moral. The slave trade was constitutional for a long time. The Christian's standard should be God's word, not man's laws or the constitution.

it is like many other things.... being moral or immoral is decided by what we "do" with it. Owning a gun is neither moral nor immoral in and of itself. It is what you do with that freedom that makes it moral or immoral.

 

[Karlon]

it's this simple: if you owe any debt, no matter what happens in government, you pay the debt. unless you are pardoned.

 

[JohnB]

If someone had debts that they could never "catch up" on, due to loss of income for reasons beyond their control... but I believe it would have to be with the caveat that a sea change in fiscal behavior would happen, probably with the notion of no more credit cards, loans, etc...

Too bad America never learned this. Interesting Israel also became greedy and never learned it either.
Deuteronomy 28:12-13
"The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow.

 

[Lamar]

The 18th was the prohibition and 21st repealed it, However, like pot, it is not given as a right in the constitution, as it granted states the right to regulate and sell, just like Pot.

Before the 18th Amendment people had the right to drink alcohol
After the 18th Amendment people did not have the right to drink alcohol.

21st Amendment vice versa

 

[Lamar]

it's this simple: if you owe any debt, no matter what happens in government, you pay the debt. unless you are pardoned.

A pardon is granted "in government", it's called bankruptcy.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Bankruptcy is a license to steal granted by the government. The only ethical pardon would be if your creditor pardoned you.

 

[Lamar]

Bankruptcy is a license to steal granted by the government. The only ethical pardon would be if your creditor pardoned you.

If bankruptcy is truly a license to steal why would credit companies issue loans?
I suspect your comment is somewhat hyperbole.

 

[Dropship]

To get something they cannot afford at the time. If you were newly married, would you have the money to pay cash for a house? It makes more sense to pay down a loan than to keep throwing money into the pit of rentals. You actually are "buying" something instead of renting it.

I've only ever wanted to rent the places i've lived in, on the grounds that if the place burns down or is trashed in a meteor storm or whatever, it's the landlords problem not mine, and i can simply go rent somewhere else..

 

[hornetguy]

I've only ever wanted to rent the places i've lived in, on the grounds that if the place burns down or is trashed in a meteor storm or whatever, it's the landlords problem not mine, and i can simply go rent somewhere else..

are meteor storms a high risk where you live? I grew up in tornado alley and our houses never got trashed.... I imagine a tornado is a more likely event than a meteor shower...

The problem I see with renting is that ALL the money you pay to live someplace is GONE. When you leave, you start again from zero.
If you put all that "rent" money into a house, when you choose to leave, you have equity. Normally, houses/real estate increase in value, not decrease, and you can usually get all your investment back... much smarter move, in my opinion.

 

[SomeDisciple]

The problem I see with renting is that ALL the money you pay to live someplace is GONE. When you leave, you start again from zero.

It the worst when the market is upside down and rents are above mortgage payments...

In my area, housing is 20% overvalued (on top of all the inflation) because no one is selling. No availability= landlords charging whatever they want.

 

[Duck]

It is a fine line for a born again Christian to make a deal with the world banking system. That's who's the god of this world.

 

[Moses_Young]

That's all well and good, but the simple question is: Are we morally obligated to pay back money we borrowed from a bank? I hear a lot of people using smoke and mirrors to dodge the issue. The answer is simple; yes we are unless the contract is illegal, and that's up to a court to decide.

So why is it up to a court to decide whether or not the contract is illegal, but not up to a court to decide whether or not the defaulter has truly defaulted? The bank is trying to impose God's standards on people, while using man's standards to allow it's illegal activities.

Man's standards allows the bank to commit fraud and to steal (commit usury). Man's standards also allow for a person to default or go bankrupt on a debt they can't repay.

God's standards do not allow banks to commit fraud or to steal (i.e. commit usury or charge interest on loans). God's standards also require men to honour their word with respect to debt.

The bank is using man's standards for itself (by it's acceptance of fraud and stealing to make money), but then demanding that its debtors comply with God's standards to pay back the money defaulted on. In short, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. Banks have done this for too long, and this is why they are all going bankrupt. Dishonestly profiting from dishonest money.

So if it's left to a court to decide whether a contract is illegal, it's also up to the same court to make the defaulter pay back his debt.

 

[Dropship]

..The problem I see with renting is that ALL the money you pay to live someplace is GONE. When you leave, you start again from zero..

Look at it another way- when I need repairs and stuff to my rented property, I notify the landlord and he's obliged by law to do it, whether it's something costly like fixing the bust cooker or fridge, of fixing a leaky roof, or if the loft water tank is playing up, or re-wiring the property if the fuse box blows, or just fixing a new tap washer etc, so I can rest secure in the knowledge that i'll never have to pay tradesmen myself to come do it, the money to pay them comes out of his own pocket, so in that sense I'm getting some of the rent back that I've been paying him.
Also, as a renter, I can up sticks in the blink of an eye and go rent a place elsewhere in the country if the fancy takes me because I'm not tied to my own house and am therefore as free as a bird..

 

[ResidentAlien]

So why is it up to a court to decide whether or not the contract is illegal, but not up to a court to decide whether or not the defaulter has truly defaulted? The bank is trying to impose God's standards on people, while using man's standards to allow it's illegal activities.

Man's standards allows the bank to commit fraud and to steal (commit usury). Man's standards also allow for a person to default or go bankrupt on a debt they can't repay.

God's standards do not allow banks to commit fraud or to steal (i.e. commit usury or charge interest on loans). God's standards also require men to honour their word with respect to debt.

The bank is using man's standards for itself (by it's acceptance of fraud and stealing to make money), but then demanding that its debtors comply with God's standards to pay back the money defaulted on. In short, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. Banks have done this for too long, and this is why they are all going bankrupt. Dishonestly profiting from dishonest money.

So if it's left to a court to decide whether a contract is illegal, it's also up to the same court to make the defaulter pay back his debt.

I don't know. I'll let someone else handle that one.

 

[posthuman]

Around 2008 when the market crash and people were losing their homes, many people filed for bankruptcy. I remember some banks posting that debtors had a moral obligation to pay their debt, no matter what the law said. My answer to them were, banks are not moral. The law gives exemptions to protect people's income. I believe Jesus would say....."What does the law say?" You follow the laws. The banks have to follow the same laws we do. There is no moral obligation to the banks. How say you?

Romans 13:8
Let no debt remain outstanding


You do not have the perogative to abuse someone just because you consider them immoral.

If your neighbor is a sinner that does not give you the right to steal his property.

 

[posthuman]

My take. You cannot sign away liability. If you desperately need a loan but go to a bank and end up with overcharges in the fine print. This is cheating. You did not agree to this. How many of you get a Lawyer to apply for a loan? Most don't, but banks are greedy and will cheat you. Don't start me on Evil credit card company's. Mortgage companies are the worst. Why do think the Fed took oversite of them, because they cheated so many people. I live debt free, and that's the only way. God has blessed me. I thank Jesus Christ everyday.

If you signed it, you weren't cheated.

read the fine print.

 

[Moses_Young]

There's no fraud involved when a person agrees to the loan stipulations. In the case of usury, don't agree to the loan... but if you do, uphold your end of the bargain.

The fraud is that the bank never had the money to begin with. It's loaning money that doesn't exist, and worse, charging usury on the non-existent money.

If you signed it, you weren't cheated.

read the fine print.

If you signed it, you are agreeing to the rules of man, not of God. The rules of man allow for bankruptcy and default, so the bank has no cause to complain.

If it tries to pull the "moral" card, it is in default for fraud and usury, so must restitute for these crimes first.