Is it a moral or legal obligation to pay a debt to a bank?

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ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#81
Apr 21, 2021
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#81
Duck said:
Article 1 section 8. of United States constitution. Same with all the other freedoms we enjoy.
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Abortion is still legal in certain states. You saying that's morally and ethically acceptable? Pot is legal in many states. Alcohol's legal. Prostitution's legal in certain places; and not treated as a serious crime in many others. All these things are simply freedoms that Christians are entitled to enjoy?

I'm learning a lot about the modern Christian perspective on finances. I have to say I'm surprised, but I don't know why I should be. Go in debt; can't pay debt; file bankruptcy. That's the American way.
 
Duck

Duck

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Aug 21, 2023
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#82
ResidentAlien said:
Abortion is still legal in certain states. You saying that's morally and ethically acceptable? Pot is legal in many states. Alcohol's legal. Prostitution's legal in certain places; and not treated as a serious crime in many others. All these things are simply freedoms that Christians are entitled to enjoy?

I'm learning a lot about the modern Christian perspective on finances. I have to say I'm surprised, but I don't know why I should be. Go in debt; can't pay debt; file bankruptcy. That's the American way.
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Pot, Alcohol, and prostitution are not in the US constitution. Is moral to buy a gun? The 2nd Amendment gives you the right.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#84
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#84
Duck said:
Pot, Alcohol, and prostitution are not in the US constitution. Is moral to buy a gun? The 2nd Amendment gives you the right.
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So because bankruptcy is a constitutional right, you say it's okay to rack up debt and then file bankruptcy to bail yourself out? You see no ethical or moral problem with that. As long as it's in the constitution you're fine with it.
 
Dropship

Dropship

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Aug 8, 2023
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#85
I've never borrowed from banks or anywhere else, so clue me in- why do other people borrow in the first place?
 
Duck

Duck

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ResidentAlien said:
So because bankruptcy is a constitutional right, you say it's okay to rack up debt and then file bankruptcy to bail yourself out? You see no ethical or moral problem with that. As long as it's in the constitution you're fine with it.
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I fine with it because it eliminated debtors prisons. Simple enough. By the way, corporations bankrupt all the time.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Very often creditors will work with an individual to delay payments or work out payments at a lower rate. Usually people go further into debt trying to climb out of debt and only address the issue with the financial institution when it becomes dire.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#88
Duck said:
I fine with it because it eliminated debtors prisons. Simple enough. By the way, corporations bankrupt all the time.
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If you personally were in debt, would have any moral or ethical issues with filing bankruptcy?
 
JohnB

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#89
Lamar said:
Regardless of the type of the loan, the amount of the loan or who you owe the money to, you have an obligation to let your yes be yes and your no be no.

Loans involving financial groups and consumers are regulated by the government. When you sign a loan agreement that agreement is bound be the laws of the land.

Part of any loan agreement has a tacit understanding of the legal recourse that is available to both sides in the discharge of the loan. One of the options for the consumer is bankruptcy, just as the bank has the option of foreclosure.

You as a consumer should know you legal options in this matter. I promise you the banks do.

In other words, if you choose to not pay the debt do it the legal way and not simply walk away and ignore the debt.
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We have laws of exemptions too. If my Social Security cannot be taken for debts, I don't have to give it to them. The laws allow that. If Ceaser allows you to keep your money, they cannot do anything about it. The banks knew the exemptions when they signed the papers too. They knew the risk. I believe Jesus would ask you, what does the law allow? What is the greater good?
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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ResidentAlien said:
Can you give an example where bankruptcy would be morally and ethically acceptable?
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If someone had debts that they could never "catch up" on, due to loss of income for reasons beyond their control... but I believe it would have to be with the caveat that a sea change in fiscal behavior would happen, probably with the notion of no more credit cards, loans, etc...
 
Dropship

Dropship

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#92
Amusing true story- A few years ago i went in my bank (Lloyds) to do a minor unimportant transaction and after it was completed the woman clerk said with a smile- "Oh dear, I see on my computer screen that you haven't got a credit card, but i'll soon fix you up with one"
"Thanks but I don't need one" I said " I simply use my Debit card to pay for anything"
She looked shocked and said- "But EVERYBODY needs a Credit card nowadays!"
"Not me" I replied, but she wouldn't take no for an answer and said, still smiling- "You've nothing to lose by having one so i'll fix you up with one right now"
So I said "Alright" just as an experiment, and it took her 20 minutes of her time to tap all my details into her computer, at the end of which she said grinning like a cheshire cat- "All done, you'll be getting a Credit Card in the post within the next few days"
When it arrived I cut it into pieces and binned it..:)
My point is that banks probably pressure people into having credit cards in the hope of trapping them on the debt merry-go-=round or something..:)
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#93
Apr 21, 2021
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#93
Owning a gun is not necessarily moral in God's eyes just because it's in the constitution.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#94
Jan 18, 2016
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SpeakTruth101 said:
So drop it, but then you go on to tell me you view? OK...
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I was simply clarifying why I thought it wasn't worth continuing.
You make it difficult to continue in a civil discussion.
 
SpeakTruth101

SpeakTruth101

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#96
Aug 14, 2023
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#96
hornetguy said:
I was simply clarifying why I thought it wasn't worth continuing.
You make it difficult to continue in a civil discussion.
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well I thought that post was civil, When you tell me to move on and then give your view I think you are the one being unfair, but that is not important, im not hurt by it, and hold no grudge. I have done similar or even the same before im sure. but none the less I speak my mind freely, I think we all should, and im ok if people have a different take than me, sometimes things can be gleaned or outright learned from the discussion. Im finding this topic interesting, especially since the usury Laws are all in the OT and many say they are destroyed or whatever. In any case it is a complex reality when really looking at the banking system and the govt laws.
 
SpeakTruth101

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
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#97
ResidentAlien said:
Owning a gun is not necessarily moral in God's eyes just because it's in the constitution.
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How would you view this in respect to a more modern weapon:

Luke 22:35-38, “And He said to them, “When I sent you without purse and bag and sandals, did you lack any?” And they said, “None at all. And He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, likewise also a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that what has been written has yet to be accomplished in Me, ‘And He was reckoned with lawless ones. that which refers to Me has an end too. And they said, “Master, look, here are two swords.” But He said to them, “That is enough!”

Note, He also says lvie by the sword die by the sword, personally I dont think self defence is "living by"
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#98
Jan 18, 2016
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#98
Dropship said:
Amusing true story- A few years ago i went in my bank (Lloyds) to do a minor unimportant transaction and after it was completed the woman clerk said with a smile- "Oh dear, I see on my computer screen that you haven't got a credit card, but i'll soon fix you up with one"
"Thanks but I don't need one" I said " I simply use my Debit card to pay for anything"
She looked shocked and said- "But EVERYBODY needs a Credit card nowadays!"
"Not me" I replied, but she wouldn't take no for an answer and said, still smiling- "You've nothing to lose by having one so i'll fix you up with one right now"
So I said "Alright" just as an experiment, and it took her 20 minutes of her time to tap all my details into her computer, at the end of which she said grinning like a cheshire cat- "All done, you'll be getting a Credit Card in the post within the next few days"
When it arrived I cut it into pieces and binned it..:)
My point is that banks probably pressure people into having credit cards in the hope of trapping them on the debt merry-go-=round or something..:)
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That is true. That is where many stores/businesses/etc make their money.... on their credit cards.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#99
Apr 21, 2021
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#99
hornetguy said:
Neither is it immoral.
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That's a good point; but my point is just because something's constitutional doesn't mean it's automatically good and moral, any more than being legal makes something good and moral. The slave trade was constitutional for a long time. The Christian's standard should be God's word, not man's laws or the constitution.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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#100
Duck said:
Pot, Alcohol, and prostitution are not in the US constitution. Is moral to buy a gun? The 2nd Amendment gives you the right.
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Alcohol is in the 18th and 21th amendments of the U.S. Constitution.
 
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