Is it a moral or legal obligation to pay a debt to a bank?

[Dropship]

..There is no moral obligation to the banks. How say you?

Tricky one, there's no easy answer so I suppose it's up to individuals to do what they personally feel is right.
Perhaps offering to repay the bank only a small sum like £5 per week would do?
Jesus held up a coin and said "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's", even though the Roman Empire was cruel and morally corrupt, and some banks are perverted and morally corrupt too, for example here's a Lloyds advert showing a homosexual proposing "marriage" to his gay lover-

 

[ResidentAlien]

Tricky one, there's no easy answer so I suppose it's up to individuals to do what they personally feel is right.
Perhaps offering to repay the bank say only a small sum like £5 per week would do?
Jesus held up a coin and said "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's", even though the Roman Empire was cruel and morally corrupt, and some banks are perverted and morally corrupt too, for example here's a Lloyds advert showing a homosexual proposing "marriage" to his gay lover-

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All good reasons to stay away from banks but not good reasons to flake on your obligation. The time for asking if they're immoral perverts is before you hold out your hand and take money from them. If they defrauded you, or if the contract you signed was illegal in some form or fashion then yeah, you might have a case. But the "they're a bunch of immoral perverts" defense won't hold up in court.

 

[Dropship]

All good reasons to stay away from banks but not good reasons to flake on your obligation. The time for asking if they're immoral perverts is before you hold out your hand and take money from them..

I've never borrowed from banks or anywhere else but if I had done, I think i'd do what I said earlier, namely offer to pay off the debt with only a very small sum each week to salve my conscience..

 

[Dropship]

PS- In Britain the law requires us to buy a £159 TV licence each year which goes to the BBC even though Beeb programmes are often spiritually perverted, that's another dilemma for Christians, to pay or not to pay..

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Matthew 22:20-21,20 And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Then give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to Elohim what is Elohim’s.”

Acts 5:29, "Then Kepha and the other apostles answered, and said; We must aobey YHWH rather than men."

What we owe our brothers and neighbors:

Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."

Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am YHWH."

Luke 17:3-4, "So be on your guard! If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him! But if he repents, forgive him! And if he trespasses against you seven times in one day, and seven times in that day turns to you, and says; I repent; then you must forgive him."

What we owe YHWH:

Deuteronomy 10:12-14,12 “And now, Yisra’ĕl, what is יהוה your Elohim asking of you, but to fear יהוה your Elohim, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, and to serve יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being, 13 to guard the commands of יהוה and His laws which I command you today for your good? 14 “See, the heavens and the heaven of heavens belong to יהוה your Elohim, also the earth with all that is in it.”

Summed up

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[ResidentAlien]

PS- In Britain the law requires us to buy a £159 TV licence each year which goes to the BBC even though Beeb programmes are often spiritually perverted, that's another dilemma for Christians, to pay or not to pay..

Doesn't sound like a dilemma to me, but I don't have a TV. I don't know, maybe you need a TV for some reason.

 

[Moses_Young]

The Jews also worked 6 days. Alot of economic hardship might be relieved if people worked 6 days.
I'm not advocating a 6 day work week so much as advocating that if you want to implement another system it should be implemented fully to get the desired benefits.

They also only paid 10% tax, which was voluntary, and all of which went to supporting their equivalent of the church (not the government).

 

[Cameron143]

They also only paid 10% tax, which was voluntary, and all of which went to supporting their equivalent of the church (not the government).

They also paid another 10% tax as well as another 10% every third year. And they were a theocracy. The church was the governing entity.

 

[Moses_Young]

Around 2008 when the market crash and people were losing their homes, many people filed for bankruptcy. I remember some banks posting that debtors had a moral obligation to pay their debt, no matter what the law said. My answer to them were, banks are not moral. The law gives exemptions to protect people's income. I believe Jesus would say....."What does the law say?" You follow the laws. The banks have to follow the same laws we do. There is no moral obligation to the banks. How say you?

First of all, let the bank pay back all those it has robbed via usury (i.e. charging interest) and fraud (i.e. lending money that it doesn't own or that doesn't even exist). Once this is done, and compensation is paid to the same for these thefts made by the bank, it will be in a more suitable moral position to preach morality to it's defaulting debtors.

 

[Moses_Young]

They also paid another 10% tax as well as another 10% every third year. And they were a theocracy. The church was the governing entity.

Really? Can you quote me the scripture (chapter and verse), please? I was under the impression it was only a tithe (10%).

 

[JohnDB]

Soon enough, in about a year or so, the USA is going to have double digit unemployment along with more inflation.
First a housing crash though and people will be stuck owing more for their houses than they are worth just before the layoffs.

Just saying....the banks are already tightening credit.

 

[Cameron143]

Really? Can you quote me the scripture (chapter and verse), please? I was under the impression it was only a tithe (10%).

I'll be glad to but can't look it up until later.

 

[Komentaja]

If I accept a loan with a promise to repay it, I then have a moral obligation that is even greater than the legal obligation to repay it. My word is a very valuable thing. If a person's word has no value...

I am big on this as well. I used to just lie to myself and others in a way that I wouldn't even believe MYSELF if i said i'll do something. Then I heard a certain someone say you should give your own word value. So say what you do, and do what you say. I started bringing my own word some value and now when I say it, you can take it to the bank.

This is why people fail in weight loss and things like that. They dont believe it when they say "im gonna lose weight" and neither does anyone else, cause they always failed to keep their word.

 

[Magenta]

I've never borrowed from banks or anywhere else but if I had done, I think i'd do what I said earlier,
namely offer to pay off the debt with only a very small sum each week to salve my conscience..

The smaller amount you pay regularly on the principle amount owed, the more interest you accrue.

That's why it is always best to pay off your debts as quickly as possible.

 

[Moses_Young]

Good reason to avoid getting involved with banks, credit cards and the like. But that doesn't take away a person's moral obligation if they sign on the dotted line. You can't use as a defense: "They're a bunch of dirty rotten SOBs, therefore I'm not obligated to honor my commitment."

An illegal contract is non-binding. You are right that one's word is important, and should be honoured. But banks are guilty of fraud and theft (usury). I say first deal with the banks for their fraud and theft, then deal with those who did not honour their word. We would likely find that if the banks hadn't committed the fraud and the theft, those who defaulted would be able to repay what they had committed.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Deuteronomy 15:1-3, “At the end of every seven years you make a release of debts. And this is the word of the release: Every creditor is to release what he has loaned to his neighbor, he does not require it of his neighbour or his brother, because it is called the release of יהוה. Of a foreigner you could require it, but your hand is to release whatever is owed by your brother.”

Deuteronomy 15:9-11,9 “Be on guard lest there be a thought of Beliya‛al in your heart, saying, ‘The seventh year, the year of release, is near,’ and your eye is evil against your poor brother and you give him naught. And he shall cry out to יהוה against you, and it shall be a sin in you. 10 “You shall certainly give to him, and your heart should not be grieved when you give to him, because for this reason יהוה your Elohim does bless you in all your works and in all to which you put your hand. 11 “Because the poor one does not cease from the land. Therefore I am commanding you, saying, ‘You shall certainly open your hand to your brother, to your poor and to your needy one, in your land.”

Proverbs 18:9, “Also, he who is slack in his work Is a brother of a master destroyer.”

Proverbs 12:11-12, “He who tills his land is satisfied with bread, But he who pursues vanities is lacking heart. The wrong shall covet the catch of evil-doers, But the root of the righteous yields fruit.”

With a release every sever years one would be more certain the person they lend money to would have the ability to pay back, rather than purposefully lending at predatory interest to essentially make them enslaved to the debt plus interest.
Thus the year of release eliminates predatory lending. Yet it says do not withhold from the poor, but a poor man would not need a million dollar loan to get himself off his feet to give him a foundation to rise out of poverty. When a high interest rate on an amount of money they could never pay back would enslave them to said debt. With no year of release, it would be perpetual debt slavery. Therefore one could loan money to the poor but realistically, for their well being not for a wasteful desire and as Exodus 22:25 says, without interest. One is not forced to loan money to someone who wastes it on luxury goods, drugs, alcohol, or frivolous items, those people would not be poor and needy but rather wasteful. Wasteful spending is not helping a man get out of poverty but rather ensuring it.

Proverbs 14:23, “In all labor there is profit, But talk of the lips leads only to poverty.”

 

[SomeDisciple]

Around 2008 when the market crash and people were losing their homes, many people filed for bankruptcy. I remember some banks posting that debtors had a moral obligation to pay their debt, no matter what the law said. My answer to them were, banks are not moral. The law gives exemptions to protect people's income. I believe Jesus would say....."What does the law say?" You follow the laws. The banks have to follow the same laws we do. There is no moral obligation to the banks. How say you?

Well, it's both.

When you take out a loan, you are agreeing to pay the money back; so, not paying the money back intentionally is going against your word and is both illegal and immoral.

But... Speaktruth also has a good point. Predatory lending is also bad in the first place. The way housing is treated like stock investments in the US; I am starting to get very disgusted with that.

At the same time I don't think that excuses us from debts if we take them... but we do have bankruptcy for a reason- and I don't think going bankrupt is neccesarily immoral; unless you take a whole bunch of debt you know you can never pay off.

 

[ResidentAlien]

An illegal contract is non-binding. You are right that one's word is important, and should be honoured. But banks are guilty of fraud and theft (usury). I say first deal with the banks for their fraud and theft, then deal with those who did not honour their word. We would likely find that if the banks hadn't committed the fraud and the theft, those who defaulted would be able to repay what they had committed.

That's all well and good, but the simple question is: Are we morally obligated to pay back money we borrowed from a bank? I hear a lot of people using smoke and mirrors to dodge the issue. The answer is simple; yes we are unless the contract is illegal, and that's up to a court to decide.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

The heart of man is not always honest, from people justifying their own wrongs to corrupt judges. Even back in the book of Judges, they went corrupt.

A judge may or may not give right ruling, but the same with the heart of every man, that is why we have to look to YHWH.

1 Samuel 8:3-5,3 But his sons did not walk in his ways, and turned aside after own gain, and took bribes, and twisted right-ruling. 4 And all the elders of Yisra’ĕl gathered together and came to Shemu’ĕl at Ramah, 5 and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint for us a sovereign to rule us like all the nations.”

 

[Tall_Timbers]

First of all, let the bank pay back all those it has robbed via usury (i.e. charging interest)

There's no fraud involved when a person agrees to the loan stipulations. In the case of usury, don't agree to the loan... but if you do, uphold your end of the bargain.