Are gifts evidence of salvation?

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ResidentAlien said:
I'm not asking anyone to turn anything on or off. I'm just asking for solid evidence that they've ever done anything.
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There are released medical records everywhere and eyewitness accounts everywhere. Eyewitnesses accounts are taken seriously in court cases in the cases of criminal behavior prosecution and defense. So why don’t you accept the eyewitnesses accounts?
 
FollowingtheWay said:
There are released medical records everywhere and eyewitness accounts everywhere. Eyewitnesses accounts are taken seriously in court cases in the cases of criminal behavior prosecution and defense. So why don’t you accept the eyewitnesses accounts?
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Fine, you say there are many credible cases. Just show me one that you feel is especially credible.
 
FollowingtheWay said:
Ok so ask yourself this question. You have compiled all these scriptures to try to extract the justification for cessation of the miraculous gifts. To what point? Where is your heart in that? Does that line up with the heart of Jesus and the overarching theme of the miraculous working in all of scripture? Why would we think the miraculous was great for the Bible times but we all of a sudden don’t need it now? Why would we not need the miraculous today? We still see great evil on the move in our world, wouldn’t God still want his church to have power against that evil? Didn’t that justification for cessation take a whole lot more work to do in your mind than simply believing God the Holy Spirit is who God said he is and that He still works today just as he did in the early church? To me basis of continuation doesn’t require me to compile a bunch of random teachings that were disconnected from each other and contrive them to mean something they were never intended to mean being stripped of the greater context of love.
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The gifts served a unique purpose in the early church at that early Christian time and are no longer necessary nor are the apostles here to pass them on since they were made manifest by the laying on of their hands. We no longer need piece meal gifts, we have the complete word of God today to guide us as the gifts did back then with mo written word. Tongues for instance, were necessary to convince the unbeliever as the church was growing and the word spreading to remote parts with different languages. Or necessary today, and Tongues are nothing like that today. They are a joke!
 
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ResidentAlien said:
Fine, you say there are many credible cases. Just show me one that you feel is especially credible.
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Nah. I think you need to look them up yourself. Might do some good in your heart to see God healing the deemed lost causes of our world.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Fine, you say there are many credible cases. Just show me one that you feel is especially credible.
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So the miraculous you said you believe in is because you have seen 100 per cent proof or are you just arguing for the sake of it? I understand you hate the fakes, so do I but you dig your heels in and go around and around in circles.
 
DJT_47 said:
The gifts served a unique purpose in the early church at that early Christian time and are no longer necessary nor are the apostles here to pass them on since they were made manifest by the laying on of their hands. We no longer need piece meal gifts, we have the complete word of God today to guide us as the gifts did back then with mo written word. Tongues for instance, were necessary to convince the unbeliever as the church was growing and the word spreading to remote parts with different languages. Or necessary today, and Tongues are nothing like that today. They are a joke!
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The laying on of hands was passed to Church elders through the times. That didn’t end with the Apostle’s and I’m sure if you ask 3rd world missionaries they see God moving miraculously as they are still building the church. Ask them if they believe in cessation. That early church age continues today weather you accept that or not. I think you have added a timeline that isn’t there to the Bible . The early church and our age is one in the same. Our work in building up the church isn’t over we haven’t reached every people group yet. We are still the midst of the great commission.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Fine, you say there are many credible cases. Just show me one that you feel is especially credible.
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What about the movie where the kid drowned, and he was underwater for about 30 minutes, and he was pronounced dead, but his mom prayed, and he came back to life? I think that was based on a true story, but confess I never investigated it.
 
Moses_Young said:
What about the movie where the kid drowned, and he was underwater for about 30 minutes, and he was pronounced dead, but his mom prayed, and he came back to life? I think that was based on a true story, but confess I never investigated it.
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I dont think I have seen that movie, but God does miracles every day around the world.
 
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Ruby123 said:
I dont think I have seen that movie, but God does miracles every day around the world.
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I think Western societies are by nature very unbelieving. But lots of charlatans too - probably why they become unbelieving? I liked what one of them said to Jesus "Lord I believe, but take away my unbelief."
 
Ruby123 said:
I dont think I have seen that movie, but God does miracles every day around the world.
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Yes! God does miracles, but man doesn't. Big difference in people praying and God answering vs some man kayong his hands on a person and they are instantly healed. Doesn't happen today but did in biblical times.
 
Moses_Young said:
I think Western societies are by nature very unbelieving. But lots of charlatans too - probably why they become unbelieving? I liked what one of them said to Jesus "Lord I believe, but take away my unbelief."
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Yeah unfortunately there are some fakes but you cant disbelieve every story because some are fakes.
 
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DJT_47 said:
Yes! God does miracles, but man doesn't. Big difference in people praying and God answering vs some man kayong his hands on a person and they are instantly healed. Doesn't happen today but did in biblical times.
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If Jesus told the disciples to lay hands on the sick and they would recover and he is the same yesterday, today and forever then he can still operate through someone as his spirit instructs. No difference. I dont put God in a box and tell him who he is or how he acts, I let him tell me. I do agree though that there are many fakes.
 
Ruby123 said:
If Jesus told the disciples to lay hands on the sick and they would recover and he is the same yesterday, today and forever then he can still operate through someone as his spirit instructs. No difference. I dont put God in a box and tell him who he is or how he acts, I let him tell me. I do agree though that there are many fakes.
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But that's not what Jesus does today!
 
Nehemiah6 said:
You are actually denying what God and other Christians will see as evidence simply because you think the fruit of the Spirit is more valid.
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I've noticed a trend of people overstanding me.

Nehemiah6 said:
Well if you don't feed your brother in distress (as John says) you can talk all you want but there will be no evidence. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 2:17,18) In modern parlance, John is saying talk is cheap. When you carefully go right down that list, that is OBJECTIVE evidence. Even the inner witness of the Spirit.
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There is a myriad of charities that give to those in need. I'm sure even Joe Biden does it, but is it objective evidence that he is saved?
 
Cameron143 said:
While there is a natural expression of these traits, they are not the fruit of the Spirit. Spiritual people can tell the difference between what is natural and what the Spirit produces. It's not the same.
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For example, natural love tends to be superficially fickle while love emanating from the Spirit is fathomless and enduring.
 
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DJT_47 said:
But that's not what Jesus does today!
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Yes it is! Jesus’ mission hasn’t changed. We are still tasked with the Great commission.

“Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 
Mem said:
For example, natural love tends to be superficially fickle while love emanating from the Spirit is fathomless and enduring.
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All natural gifts have a measure of sin in their natural exercise. Even natural gifts should be surrendered to the Spirit.
 
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