Saul prophesied. Was He saved?
Balaam prophesied. Was he saved?
Those who were sent away by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 prophesied, cast out demons, and did miracles. Were they saved?
Are gifts evidence of salvation?
- Thread starter Lamar
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Balaam prophesied. Was he saved?
Those who were sent away by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 prophesied, cast out demons, and did miracles. Were they saved?
Are you actually reading these posts?
The key point is "sincere".
Do you think your examples apply here?
F
FollowingtheWay
Guest
Saul and Balaam were in the times where Holy Spirit could not permanently indwell a person. God would at his discretion let Holy Spirit fall on individuals for a specific time for a specific purpose. The annointing could be removed as God pleased. I think you already knew that though.
The sent away in Matt7:21-23 never mentioned it was Holy Spirits power specifically that cast out demons did miracles etc. the spiritual realm can be manipulated by other means. Today we see it manipulated by witchcraft, sorcery- there is a reason why palm reading, tarot cards, horoscopes , voodoo , Wicca crystals, dream catchers , rabbits feet etc are so popular and that’s because they work unlawfully, they break into the spiritual realm through the demonic as opposed to the way of Jesus Christ through Holy Spirits power. This is probably exactly how Simon the sorcerer was making it happen in the book of Acts.
The last group called Jesus "Lord, Lord ". Does that qualify as sincere?
F
FollowingtheWay
Guest
Did they mean it in their hearts though? Or was it a mental assent and empty words? That is the question. Lots of people claim to believe in “God” on the street but when you start getting pointed and start naming Jesus Christ specific their attitudes change.
These can be displayed as proficiently as Leonard Decaprio ever could but place in the most extreme calling for them, they do not come as "naturally" and this will show. For example, suppose someone spits on you and pulls your beard, how easy would it be for you to love that person?
These people made much of their profession and were no doubt sincere. Jesus made it plain why He rejected them...I never knew you.
John 17:3 says eternal life is knowing God and Christ.
There is no implication by Jesus that they didn't believe they were doing what they were doing in His name or that the source of their power for their works wasn't the Spirit.
Obviously not.
The question is not simply were they sincere but did they actually cast out real demons or just "Benny Hinn demons"?
Either way your three examples do not apply.
Fair enough. My point was that though spiritual gifts are given by God to His people and may evidence that they are saved, not every manifestation of the Spirit is exercised through saved people.
While there is a natural expression of these traits, they are not the fruit of the Spirit. Spiritual people can tell the difference between what is natural and what the Spirit produces. It's not the same.
Hello Lamar, how can we know/prove that a supernatural manifestation of some kind is truly the work of the Holy Spirit, or not
For instance, how can we be sure that when we hear someone speaking in tongues (whether they are spoken without interpretation, or even with an 'unprovable' interpretation), that they are really and truly coming from Him Along these same lines, you said,
My question remains that same as it is above, how can we know that's true (IOW, how can we know whether it is the Holy Spirit or the devil who is truly behind a particular supernatural manifestation)
That all said, if there is a way to prove that a supernatural manifestation is actually from the Holy Spirit, then you might be onto something here.
God bless you!!
--David
p.s. - I'll explain my general concern about this to you if you'd like me to, but since I don't want it to affect how you answer my question(s) above, I asked them first
How can you say that in the face of what is written? You are actually denying what God and other Christians will see as evidence simply because you think the fruit of the Spirit is more valid. Well if you don't feed your brother in distress (as John says) you can talk all you want but there will be no evidence. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 2:17,18) In modern parlance, John is saying talk is cheap. When you carefully go right down that list, that is OBJECTIVE evidence. Even the inner witness of the Spirit.
When you testify before the world -- for example -- that THE FATHER SENT THE SON TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD what's that? Your testimony is OBJECTIVE proof that you are saved and proclaiming the Gospel. It can be actually recorded for posterity if it is genuine.
But you would rather go into supernatural "manifestations" than do what is actually written. The same applies to everything else. If you do not deny that you have sinned, and confess your sins to God and forsake them, that is objective evidence that you are saved. Go right through that list and see that God and other Christians will note that there is some Christian reality in your life. Too many Christians today want to be "super-spiritual" rather than simply love God and obey His commandments.
Not really. "Tongues" and other so-called supernatural manifestations can be, and are, faked.
1 Corinthians 1:4-8
"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul told the Corinthians that they came behind in no gift, and he dedicated part of this epistle to the proper use of the same.
Later on, he told these same Corinthians to examine themselves to see if they were even in the faith.
2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul told the Corinthians that they came behind in no gift, and he dedicated part of this epistle to the proper use of the same.
Later on, he told these same Corinthians to examine themselves to see if they were even in the faith.
2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"