Church leadership, or hierarchy

[hornetguy]

I'm curious to know what your understanding is of the hierarchy of an individual church group. We can leave out the fact that Jesus is the head of the church... that's understood. I'm talking about the day to day operation and oversight of a church assembly.
Who is in charge? Who "runs it" ... Who makes decisions, especially monetary ones? What about spiritual decisions?

Please explain your thoughts, preferably with scriptural examples for reference..

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'm curious to know what your understanding is of the hierarchy of an individual church group. We can leave out the fact that Jesus is the head of the church... that's understood. I'm talking about the day to day operation and oversight of a church assembly.
Who is in charge? Who "runs it" ... Who makes decisions, especially monetary ones? What about spiritual decisions?

Please explain your thoughts, preferably with scriptural examples for reference..

I can say at my church, a small country church, that it's pretty simple. We have a pastor, of course, we vote him in. We vote in deacons. Anything done by the church in regards to money is voted on by church members. Our small church is very generous and give to many different ministries. If there is anything to be changed, members vote on it. If we had an issue with the pastor we could take a vote of confidence. I guess the buck would have to stop at the pastor, but he's not one to act like he's the sole authority. Very informal in services, people ask questions or add to something he's said. But there are a lot of older folk who knew him in his youth, even though he's in his 60s. So they think a lot of him.

My mother took a bad fall several yrs ago and he rushed to the hospital to meet us there. He sat with her while my father and I had to get another vehicle to get her home. He was telling the nurse to be careful with her and he was so involved she assumed he was her husband. My parents have had health issues and can't make it to church and he visits them as often he can. I think the runs the church according to the Biblical standard.

 

[Aaron56]

In a marriage, the husband is the head of the wife. He is to give his life for her.
In a house (marriage w children), the children are to obey the parents.
In a household (many marriages due to children growing up) the elder parents who lead admirably in the Lord receive honor from the young.

When apostles establish elders, those elders rule over the affairs of the local church. At times, deacons are needed to attend to the issues that arise when believers come together.

Ideally, the natural rule within a family supports the spiritual rule among the believers: where there is a 1 to 1 correlation between those who rule their family well naturally and those who rule spiritually. However, because that isn’t so often the case, it is important that believers are connected with elders. For example, there is no Biblical basis for “Youth Pastors”. Parents, mothers and fathers, are charged with the spiritual upbringing of their own children. When that is not available (perhaps a child’s parents are not believers) then an elder will take on the responsibility of raising the young one in the Lord.

Locally, the elders bear the responsibility of the spiritual care of believers. An elder may be an apostle, but he will not travel to another area where there are believers without the consent of the elders there (assuming all is in order). Also, Elders might rule over several congregations in different areas.
All elders are pastors/shepherds but not all shepherds are elders. That means a shepherd may display the care for the people (the primary function of a pastor) but he will not have authority over them, unlike an elder who may command them. Pastors are also not always teachers.

Any ruling stricture within the church that does not resemble a multi-generational family (for example: if leaders/pastors are chosen based upon their education, or chosen from without the congregation, or where “father” is a title, or where “pastors” are transitional, or where there are pastors of functions and not people, or where leaders are chosen by democratic votes, etc.) is not Biblical.

 

[hornetguy]

I can say at my church, a small country church, that it's pretty simple. We have a pastor, of course, we vote him in. We vote in deacons. Anything done by the church in regards to money is voted on by church members. Our small church is very generous and give to many different ministries. If there is anything to be changed, members vote on it. If we had an issue with the pastor we could take a vote of confidence. I guess the buck would have to stop at the pastor, but he's not one to act like he's the sole authority. Very informal in services, people ask questions or add to something he's said. But there are a lot of older folk who knew him in his youth, even though he's in his 60s. So they think a lot of him.

My mother took a bad fall several yrs ago and he rushed to the hospital to meet us there. He sat with her while my father and I had to get another vehicle to get her home. He was telling the nurse to be careful with her and he was so involved she assumed he was her husband. My parents have had health issues and can't make it to church and he visits them as often he can. I think the runs the church according to the Biblical standard.

So am I correct in inferring that the pastor is basically the "leader" of the church? And that you have deacons, but not elders?

 

[hornetguy]

In a marriage, the husband is the head of the wife. He is to give his life for her.
In a house (marriage w children), the children are to obey the parents.
In a household (many marriages due to children growing up) the elder parents who lead admirably in the Lord receive honor from the young.

When apostles establish elders, those elders rule over the affairs of the local church. At times, deacons are needed to attend to the issues that arise when believers come together.

Ideally, the natural rule within a family supports the spiritual rule among the believers: where there is a 1 to 1 correlation between those who rule their family well naturally and those who rule spiritually. However, because that isn’t so often the case, it is important that believers are connected with elders. For example, there is no Biblical basis for “Youth Pastors”. Parents, mothers and fathers, are charged with the spiritual upbringing of their own children. When that is not available (perhaps a child’s parents are not believers) then an elder will take on the responsibility of raising the young one in the Lord.

Locally, the elders bear the responsibility of the spiritual care of believers. An elder may be an apostle, but he will not travel to another area where there are believers without the consent of the elders there (assuming all is in order). Also, Elders might rule over several congregations in different areas.
All elders are pastors/shepherds but not all shepherds are elders. That means a shepherd may display the care for the people (the primary function of a pastor) but he will not have authority over them, unlike an elder who may command them. Pastors are also not always teachers.

Any ruling stricture within the church that does not resemble a multi-generational family (for example: if leaders/pastors are chosen based upon their education, or chosen from without the congregation, or where “father” is a title, or where “pastors” are transitional, or where there are pastors of functions and not people, or where leaders are chosen by democratic votes, etc.) is not Biblical.

What are the qualifications of "apostles" ? I've seen scriptures that give qualifications for elders (bishop/shepherd/pastor) but not for apostles.... Much of what you describe seems very similar to what I've experienced.

 

[JaumeJ]

In a marriage, the husband is the head of the wife. He is to give his life for her.
In a house (marriage w children), the children are to obey the parents.
In a household (many marriages due to children growing up) the elder parents who lead admirably in the Lord receive honor from the young.

When apostles establish elders, those elders rule over the affairs of the local church. At times, deacons are needed to attend to the issues that arise when believers come together.

Ideally, the natural rule within a family supports the spiritual rule among the believers: where there is a 1 to 1 correlation between those who rule their family well naturally and those who rule spiritually. However, because that isn’t so often the case, it is important that believers are connected with elders. For example, there is no Biblical basis for “Youth Pastors”. Parents, mothers and fathers, are charged with the spiritual upbringing of their own children. When that is not available (perhaps a child’s parents are not believers) then an elder will take on the responsibility of raising the young one in the Lord.

Locally, the elders bear the responsibility of the spiritual care of believers. An elder may be an apostle, but he will not travel to another area where there are believers without the consent of the elders there (assuming all is in order). Also, Elders might rule over several congregations in different areas.
All elders are pastors/shepherds but not all shepherds are elders. That means a shepherd may display the care for the people (the primary function of a pastor) but he will not have authority over them, unlike an elder who may command them. Pastors are also not always teachers.

Any ruling stricture within the church that does not resemble a multi-generational family (for example: if leaders/pastors are chosen based upon their education, or chosen from without the congregation, or where “father” is a title, or where “pastors” are transitional, or where there are pastors of functions and not people, or where leaders are chosen by democratic votes, etc.) is not Biblical.

Very concise and clear, at least for me. Thank you for this share.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm curious to know what your understanding is of the hierarchy of an individual church group. We can leave out the fact that Jesus is the head of the church... that's understood. I'm talking about the day to day operation and oversight of a church assembly.
Who is in charge? Who "runs it" ... Who makes decisions, especially monetary ones? What about spiritual decisions?

Please explain your thoughts, preferably with scriptural examples for reference..

It depends upon the denomination of the church.

Methodists have a centralized leadership. The pastor is placed by a bishop....same as a Catholic Church.

Some, like the Baptists the pastoral staff are locally sourced and placed. Voting on everything in the Congregation.

Some Baptists have switched to a board of elders that control the church....the pastor is a public face....a "personality" with no real power except from the pulpit.
There is no set standard

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm curious to know what your understanding is of the hierarchy of an individual church group.

If we go strictly by the New Testament pattern there is NO HIERARCHY to be established within a local church. At the same time God gives oversight to two groups of MEN (no women).

Those given the spiritual oversight of the church are the elders. Those given temporal oversight are the deacons. Within each group all are deemed to be equal to each other. However, there is a spiritual gift called "governments" so those with this gift among the elders would take leadership, but still as among equals. We could bring out many Scriptures to support these teachings but let's leave that for now.

 

[Mem]

I was thinking this morning upon a scene in "One Night with the King" in a moment where Haman was mocking Esther, "Oh, please, my lady, forgive me...uh, puhpuhleeasse.." at which point Xerxes enters and yanks him up and says, "Dare you assault the Queen? MY! Wife!...in MY House?!..." and then sends Haman to the gallows.
We should treat every believer with consideration as the King's wife, shouldn't we?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

So am I correct in inferring that the pastor is basically the "leader" of the church? And that you have deacons, but not elders?

No, I wouldn't say so. Anything done in the church is voted on, the pastor himself is elected and can be dismissed by a vote of confidence. Then deacons are elected to also assist the pastor. I would say there are informal elders in the church. But because the average age of the church are seniors and a small country church there is no need for many people to be in leadership. Most of our people have been on the road for many years.

 

[hornetguy]

It depends upon the denomination of the church.

Methodists have a centralized leadership. The pastor is placed by a bishop....same as a Catholic Church.

Some, like the Baptists the pastoral staff are locally sourced and placed. Voting on everything in the Congregation.

Some Baptists have switched to a board of elders that control the church....the pastor is a public face....a "personality" with no real power except from the pulpit.
There is no set standard

Well, that was sort of my question..... IS there a standard set in the 1st century church?
There are many questions that could be asked about "is is scriptural"....
I'm mostly curious as to what people on here are accustomed to....

I believe that, scripturally, the church is under the spiritual leadership of elders... and there are specific qualifications/requirements for elders. It appears that this role for men was also called overseer, bishop, shepherd...

Also, in the early church, deacons (workers) were appointed to take care of day to day "secular" issues.

That's pretty much it... some churches had "preachers" that stayed local, some were more itinerant, going from church to church, spending time in different locations.

There was no central, governing body over all the churches.... although it seems that in some instances, elders were over more than one church in a city... I will have to research that some more....

It seems that in the independent, non-denominational, AOG style of churches, they are founded by a "pastor", basically a preacher, and he is the head over the whole shebang.... collecting and dispensing the collections however he/she desires, and making most, if not all decisions as to the running of the church.

I do not think that is scripturally sound....

 

[CS1]

I'm curious to know what your understanding is of the hierarchy of an individual church group. We can leave out the fact that Jesus is the head of the church... that's understood. I'm talking about the day to day operation and oversight of a church assembly.
Who is in charge? Who "runs it" ... Who makes decisions, especially monetary ones? What about spiritual decisions?

Please explain your thoughts, preferably with scriptural examples for reference..

in our fellowship, we have overseers, which are the elders, and the Pastor is the shepherd.

Pastor is also a teacher. a gift to the body of Christ to help perfect the saints 1cor 12. Eph 4:11-12

 

[Aaron56]

What are the qualifications of "apostles" ? I've seen scriptures that give qualifications for elders (bishop/shepherd/pastor) but not for apostles.... Much of what you describe seems very similar to what I've experienced.

To be complete: apostles are not greater than pastors or evangelists, etc. Their gift is a particular empowerment that supports their calling. Their ministry is trans-local: “apostle” simply means “one who is sent”. So, they are sent by the Lord for their ministry.
They are especially gifted with foundational teachings or order and governance. When they are sent, for example, they might be charged with establishing leadership (like identifying elders) among the believers. They may also be called upon to address issues within the church, like people who are causing division or to judge a matter among the believers. Typically, they understand mysteries of God and may instruct others how to walk in the Kingdom (not heaven, but rather the manner of order and rule established by the Lord).

To whit, there are only 12 Apostles of the Lamb. They are with the Lord now. They were witnesses of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection:

21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Other apostles, like Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silvanus, etc. and those today, are all chosen by the Lord via the Holy Spirit and acknowledged by the saints. An example of this was recorded in the selection and release of Paul and Barnabas in Antioch, where prophets and teachers were instructed by the Spirit to acknowledge their calling and release them by the laying on of hands.

One reason for the vast number of divisions in the church today is because people have rejected the foundational gifts of ministry: apostles and prophets. On the other hand, if churches acknowledge these gifts, many make them offices that rule over the people. No. That’s just ignorance about the order of appropriate rule among the saints. Apostles are just one type of gifted saint who serves the whole church.

 

[Aaron56]

Just a note: talk of “equality” assumes competition. There is not competition in the Father’s House. We are instructed to consider the uniqueness of each saint as part of the one body of Christ. Each part shares in the building up of the whole. Even if one is unable to minister, for example a baby, they still give place for others to minister to them in love.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...although it seems that in some instances, elders were over more than one church in a city...

Titus was told to appoint elders "in every city". So in each city there would have been a local assembly, and from within that assembly men meeting the qualifications of elders would have been appointed. But limited to their own church.

Every NT church was autonomous, with Christ directly as the Head, and the elders as "under-shepherds" under Him. Unfortunately, the NT pattern began to be abandoned rather early (2nd century), and today the majority of churches fail in this regard. Which is quite strange since it is all clearly laid out. The Catholic practice of seminaries was maintained by the Protestants, then by the non-Protestants, and that generally led to a totally different kind of church leadership opposed to the NT. Hardly anyone dares or cares to go back to what is in Scripture.

 

[JohnDB]

Well, that was sort of my question..... IS there a standard set in the 1st century church?
There are many questions that could be asked about "is is scriptural"....
I'm mostly curious as to what people on here are accustomed to....

I believe that, scripturally, the church is under the spiritual leadership of elders... and there are specific qualifications/requirements for elders. It appears that this role for men was also called overseer, bishop, shepherd...

Also, in the early church, deacons (workers) were appointed to take care of day to day "secular" issues.

That's pretty much it... some churches had "preachers" that stayed local, some were more itinerant, going from church to church, spending time in different locations.

There was no central, governing body over all the churches.... although it seems that in some instances, elders were over more than one church in a city... I will have to research that some more....

It seems that in the independent, non-denominational, AOG style of churches, they are founded by a "pastor", basically a preacher, and he is the head over the whole shebang.... collecting and dispensing the collections however he/she desires, and making most, if not all decisions as to the running of the church.

I do not think that is scripturally sound....

Generally speaking, most AOG churches operate the way you describe until they reach a certain size and then some sort of an equivalent of a "Board of Directors" is installed. (Given whatever name that is popular) However....usually the original board is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the pastor's wishes. Sometimes it's the Pastor's own children and spouse that comprise the majority seats. (Joyce Meyers)

I had some dealings with a lot of shenanigans inside of AOG churches until I left completely never to return. For whatever reason they simply don't want any transparency for their actions. And it doesn't take long to find something in the administration of an AOG church to find something that smells fishy.

 

[CS1]

Generally speaking, most AOG churches operate the way you describe until they reach a certain size and then some sort of an equivalent of a "Board of Directors" is installed. (Given whatever name that is popular) However....usually the original board is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the pastor's wishes. Sometimes it's the Pastor's own children and spouse that comprise the majority seats. (Joyce Meyers)

I had some dealings with a lot of shenanigans inside of AOG churches until I left completely never to return. For whatever reason they simply don't want any transparency for their actions. And it doesn't take long to find something in the administration of an AOG church to find something that smells fishy.

all AOG churches are in what is called fellowship and have Sovereignty

 

[JohnDB]

Titus was told to appoint elders "in every city". So in each city there would have been a local assembly, and from within that assembly men meeting the qualifications of elders would have been appointed. But limited to their own church.

Every NT church was autonomous, with Christ directly as the Head, and the elders as "under-shepherds" under Him. Unfortunately, the NT pattern began to be abandoned rather early (2nd century), and today the majority of churches fail in this regard. Which is quite strange since it is all clearly laid out. The Catholic practice of seminaries was maintained by the Protestants, then by the non-Protestants, and that generally led to a totally different kind of church leadership opposed to the NT. Hardly anyone dares or cares to go back to what is in Scripture.

We don't have any apostles or head of the Apostles anymore. Completely gone and erased....

The Catholic Church makes a big deal about Apostolic succession.....but still doesn't have the position of "Apostle" within their ranks. They got a pope but not Apostle.

 

[hornetguy]

in our fellowship, we have overseers, which are the elders, and the Pastor is the shepherd.

Pastor is also a teacher. a gift to the body of Christ to help perfect the saints 1cor 12. Eph 4:11-12

I think that is where some confusion can begin.... it has been my understanding that the term "pastor" was synonymous with elder/overseer, etc.... an elder was a pastor.... interchangeable terms.

I understand the use of the term as a teacher, but I've known a lot of teachers that in no way meet the qualifications of being an elder.

We just call those gifted with teaching, teachers, or ministers....

We have had a few regular pulpit ministers, or teachers, that do not qualify as an elder, as taught by Paul in 1 Timothy 3....

 

[studentoftheword]

Who is in charge? Who "runs it" ... Who makes decisions, especially monetary ones? What about spiritual decisions?

Well --------hopefully all involved have a daily prayer meeting with God and follow the direction of the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit should be the one running it --making the decisions as to what is to take place with all fassets of the operation not just the monetary and Spiritual decisions ---but right down to what Sermon should be preached ------most denomination today follow a lectionary for their sermons ---much easier to just pick a scripture provided ---the lazy mans way ----Humanism instead of Spiritualism ---- than praying and asking the Holy Spirit for guidance in to what should be preached for that day -----

God knows who will be attending the Church to hear His Word Preached ----Man doesn't -----

SO
If your Church body is hiring the Pastor and picking the deacons and elders and the Church body has not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to turn to for their direction when voting theses people in then your Church is void of God and is run by humankind -----and is away from God -----and there is your hierarchy -----

Not Many Churches today are run by Saved Humans who rely on God to direct their path of Glory -----


Here below you see that 7 were chosen by the group and were picked because they were filled with the Holy Spirit and Wisdom ------so noticed they were given a certain task and had the infilling of the Holy Spirit --who gives them the power to preform this task of looking after the widows -------this is not just the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but the infilling ------power and ability to do the task at hand -----


Acts 6:1-5

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

6 Now about this time, when the number of the disciples was greatly increasing, complaint was made by the Hellenists (the Greek-speaking Jews) against the [native] Hebrews because their widows were being overlooked and neglected in the daily ministration (distribution of relief).

2 So the Twelve [apostles] convened the multitude of the disciples and said, It is not seemly or desirable or right that we should have to give up or neglect [preaching] the Word of God in order to attend to serving at tables and superintending the distribution of food.

3 Therefore select out from among yourselves, brethren, seven men of good and attested character and repute, full of the [Holy] Spirit and wisdom, whom we may assign to look after this business and duty.

4 But we will continue to devote ourselves steadfastly to prayer and the ministry of the Word.