Church leadership, or hierarchy
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what is known as the "Five fold " ministries
are:
Prophets, apostles, evangelist, then pastors
A teacher was added, so it is now pastor/teacher; they are both the same.
An elder is a title given to one who is mature in the Lord and in the word. It doesn't mean they are old; if that were the case, many older people would hold the office of elder. An Elder has spiritual authority.
are:
Prophets, apostles, evangelist, then pastors
A teacher was added, so it is now pastor/teacher; they are both the same.
An elder is a title given to one who is mature in the Lord and in the word. It doesn't mean they are old; if that were the case, many older people would hold the office of elder. An Elder has spiritual authority.
You are missing some of the positions that came from the model of Synagogue.
There usually was a person (or group) that took care of the building and contents itself. (Torah scrolls were Really expensive)
Then there was a Levite that was the resident "scholar" of which there were several different classifications. The Levite(s) also was leader of the school associated with each Synagogue.
Then there was the "leader" of the Synagogue....often some sort of Rabbi.
Then on a schedule made out years in advance on Saturday a man from the community would read a proscribed scripture and tell what that scripture means to him. Then everyone (men) would discuss what the guy just read and his opinion on it.
The New Testament church was set up similarly but often the membership was small and people often did triple duties.
There usually was a person (or group) that took care of the building and contents itself. (Torah scrolls were Really expensive)
Then there was a Levite that was the resident "scholar" of which there were several different classifications. The Levite(s) also was leader of the school associated with each Synagogue.
Then there was the "leader" of the Synagogue....often some sort of Rabbi.
Then on a schedule made out years in advance on Saturday a man from the community would read a proscribed scripture and tell what that scripture means to him. Then everyone (men) would discuss what the guy just read and his opinion on it.
The New Testament church was set up similarly but often the membership was small and people often did triple duties.
I think the titles of many in the church are irrelevant because it is only the title many seek, YET don't do the work of the title they hold.
Bishops, prophets, apostles etc.. many have these titles only because they suffer from low self-esteem yet do not do the work of the title they hold or were given.
Back in the day, when Elders prayed for you and sent you out and pastors "discipled" you, it was the work you did after that testified to what gift or office the Lord was calling you to. Then they prayed and told you to seek the Lord.
Bishops, prophets, apostles etc.. many have these titles only because they suffer from low self-esteem yet do not do the work of the title they hold or were given.
Back in the day, when Elders prayed for you and sent you out and pastors "discipled" you, it was the work you did after that testified to what gift or office the Lord was calling you to. Then they prayed and told you to seek the Lord.
Yes, there are many that take on the "role" of a leader with no effort to actually be what they claim to be.
It used to be pretty bad in our churches with "deacons"..... they are supposed to be appointed for a specific duty, or task... Most of the time they were just appointed because they had been a member for "long enough", and we needed more deacons....
I was appointed as a deacon for a few years, but I was in charge of our congregation's benevolence fund... and I worked directly with people that came to the church looking for help. When I stepped out of that position, I withdrew as a deacon, because there was not another specific task I was called upon to do.
It used to be pretty bad in our churches with "deacons"..... they are supposed to be appointed for a specific duty, or task... Most of the time they were just appointed because they had been a member for "long enough", and we needed more deacons....
I was appointed as a deacon for a few years, but I was in charge of our congregation's benevolence fund... and I worked directly with people that came to the church looking for help. When I stepped out of that position, I withdrew as a deacon, because there was not another specific task I was called upon to do.
Well, it indicates maturity when the qualification is that he has managed his own household well, keeping his children "in line" so to speak.
So a 22 year old with a toddler at home would not qualify.... specifying being a good manager of a household requires experience in many kinds of adversity, so it can be proven that the man can manage well...
So a 22 year old with a toddler at home would not qualify.... specifying being a good manager of a household requires experience in many kinds of adversity, so it can be proven that the man can manage well...
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No....but it was an "of course " thing. It's alluded to in other writings. Pen, paper, and ink were expensive commodities. So much of the "of course" information that was widely known and accepted was never written as it was "unnecessary " at the time.
Christianity was considered a "sect" of Judaism. Where in the strictly Roman cities "Church" was often held in homes or the city's "gymnasium" community center.
Even if a city had a Jewish quarter the Jews absolutely refused to allow "apostacized" Jews and Goyim/Gentiles to use it for worship services.
Also...because so many Greeks/Romans had so little knowledge about the Jewish faith there often was only one or two guys that knew scriptures or possibly had knowledge of the Septuagint to explain to others. If lucky they had an actual copy of the scriptures. But that was only if they could scrounge up enough money to purchase one.
The early church, however noble was a rather rag-tag bunch. Judaism was never really accepted in the Roman world...ostracized from the word "go". And Christians were ostracized even more by the Jews. The rejects of the rejects.
Christianity was considered a "sect" of Judaism. Where in the strictly Roman cities "Church" was often held in homes or the city's "gymnasium" community center.
Even if a city had a Jewish quarter the Jews absolutely refused to allow "apostacized" Jews and Goyim/Gentiles to use it for worship services.
Also...because so many Greeks/Romans had so little knowledge about the Jewish faith there often was only one or two guys that knew scriptures or possibly had knowledge of the Septuagint to explain to others. If lucky they had an actual copy of the scriptures. But that was only if they could scrounge up enough money to purchase one.
The early church, however noble was a rather rag-tag bunch. Judaism was never really accepted in the Roman world...ostracized from the word "go". And Christians were ostracized even more by the Jews. The rejects of the rejects.
Technically they are the same word. The Latin word missiō is used once for apostle in the Septuagint.
Unlike typical missionaries, apostles are not sent to establish churches according to their denomination of origin. Apostles would reject such divisions of the Body of Christ. Apostles are sent to where they are needed in the Body, even to established churches.
Along that theme, churches often send evangelists to others. This is unfortunate. Evangelists are gifted with sharing the love of God. Their ministry is to build the saints up in love for one another within their location.
Unlike typical missionaries, apostles are not sent to establish churches according to their denomination of origin. Apostles would reject such divisions of the Body of Christ. Apostles are sent to where they are needed in the Body, even to established churches.
Along that theme, churches often send evangelists to others. This is unfortunate. Evangelists are gifted with sharing the love of God. Their ministry is to build the saints up in love for one another within their location.
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The Roman Church leadership was modeled after the Roman government when it should have been distinct. They inserted the idea of succession into the Kingdom because that’s how they dealt with their own leadership. There is no such model of succession in the church. In the church there is maturity that leads to responsibility that leads to leadership.
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It is interesting to note that while the term "pastor" appears in Ezekiel in a way which presents the shepherds of Israel in a very poor light, the term "elder" is used most frequently in the NT, followed "bishop", and applicable to the same "office".
So the office of elder/bishop and the office of deacon were established by Christ. The Greek word presbuteros is translated as elder and denotes Christian maturity (not a kid out of seminary), while the Greek word episkopos means overseer and denotes one who oversees the spiritual well-being of the flock.
So in effect elders are pastors, and every church was meant to have a plurality of elders (called a presbytery in the NT). Is this what we see in churches today? No. The burden falls on one man ("the pastor"), who rarely acts as a shepherd, and spends most of his time preparing sermons or doing administrative work. That's how far things have departed from the NT pattern. And if you don't have an M.Div. you can act as a janitor. Why did churches start demanding M. Div's instead of asking that their elders meet the NT qualifications of elders (all clearly spelled out by Paul)? And why did evangelical churches start ordaining women as pastors in clear violation of Scripture?
So the office of elder/bishop and the office of deacon were established by Christ. The Greek word presbuteros is translated as elder and denotes Christian maturity (not a kid out of seminary), while the Greek word episkopos means overseer and denotes one who oversees the spiritual well-being of the flock.
So in effect elders are pastors, and every church was meant to have a plurality of elders (called a presbytery in the NT). Is this what we see in churches today? No. The burden falls on one man ("the pastor"), who rarely acts as a shepherd, and spends most of his time preparing sermons or doing administrative work. That's how far things have departed from the NT pattern. And if you don't have an M.Div. you can act as a janitor. Why did churches start demanding M. Div's instead of asking that their elders meet the NT qualifications of elders (all clearly spelled out by Paul)? And why did evangelical churches start ordaining women as pastors in clear violation of Scripture?
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Well it was a system of leadership that they understood after it became an official religion of the Emperor/Empire. Because they didn't have any notions of separation between Church and State.
And they couldn't/wouldn't change their system of politics or civics for their religion...so instead they "shifted" the leadership of the religion. No different from people church shopping today.
And they couldn't/wouldn't change their system of politics or civics for their religion...so instead they "shifted" the leadership of the religion. No different from people church shopping today.
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Hello hornetguy,
Here's Jesus' own words about "ruling others" in the church.
Mat 20:25But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 26It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,c 27and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,d 28even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
The 'pastor' is a spiritual overseer(watchman) of the flock, keeping spiritual order in the worship, preaching, & teaching in the church.
Modern church leaders have nearly all exalted themselves to a rank of authority as authoritarians on the local, state, & national levels. They leaves Christ's positions of servitude to become leaders of power.
The main responsibility of pastors, elders, etc. is spiritual oversight. Anything else is the traditions of men.
I hope this helps.
Here's Jesus' own words about "ruling others" in the church.
Mat 20:25But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 26It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,c 27and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,d 28even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
The 'pastor' is a spiritual overseer(watchman) of the flock, keeping spiritual order in the worship, preaching, & teaching in the church.
Modern church leaders have nearly all exalted themselves to a rank of authority as authoritarians on the local, state, & national levels. They leaves Christ's positions of servitude to become leaders of power.
The main responsibility of pastors, elders, etc. is spiritual oversight. Anything else is the traditions of men.
I hope this helps.
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