A reasonable question

[Fundaamental]

The Scripture says the accuser came; it says nothing about him being invited. You're using the wrong word, and by doing so, injecting a mess of confusion into the passage.


Again, that is not what the Scripture says. It says that one of Job's servants said "The fire of God fell from heaven...". Scripture records what the servant said; it does not tell us that his statement was accurate.


Asked already, and answered in post #4.


The words are "our", not "are", and "difference" (variation, disagreement), not "indifference" (uncaring attitude, dispassionate approach).


'Satan' wasn't brought before the Lord. He came. Again, use the right words so you don't sow confusion.

none of this was the question firstly based in the opp.

Which I refreshed for you but you still haven answered.

What your saying is Satan came befor God by his own accord.

Which is why I posted you the amplified version of Job 1 which clearly refutes your position.

It also refutes your position it was Satans own power but you missed the point

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Ezekiel
who's this speaking of

The Septuagint just fails every time. Use the Version God instructed Moses to place into the Ark of the Covenant, that later God Commanded to be placed into the Holy of Hollies of the Temple.


You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your adornment:
Carnelian, chrysolite, and amethyst;
Beryl, lapis lazuli, and jasper;
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;
And gold beautifully wrought for you,
Mined for you, prepared the day you were created.
I created you as a cherub
With outstretched shielding wings;
And you resided on God’s holy mountain;
You walked among stones of fire.
You were blameless in your ways,
From the day you were created
Until wrongdoing was found in you.
By your far-flung commerce
You were filled with lawlessness
And you sinned.
So I have struck you down
From the mountain of God,
And I have destroyed you, O shielding cherub,
From among the stones of fire.


He Sinned way BEFORE Eden!

 

[Fundaamental]

The Septuagint just fails every time. Use the Version God instructed Moses to place into the Ark of the Covenant, that later God Commanded to be placed into the Holy of Hollies of the Temple.


You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your adornment:
Carnelian, chrysolite, and amethyst;
Beryl, lapis lazuli, and jasper;
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;
And gold beautifully wrought for you,
Mined for you, prepared the day you were created.
I created you as a cherub
With outstretched shielding wings;
And you resided on God’s holy mountain;
You walked among stones of fire.
You were blameless in your ways,
From the day you were created
Until wrongdoing was found in you.
By your far-flung commerce
You were filled with lawlessness
And you sinned.
So I have struck you down
From the mountain of God,
And I have destroyed you, O shielding cherub,
From among the stones of fire.


He Sinned way BEFORE Eden!

It doesn't say he sinned in eden from the scripture I posted it says he was adorned at that point of being in eden and also a guardian cherub to.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It doesn't say he sinned in eden from the scripture I posted it says he was adorned at that point of being in eden and also a guardian cherub to.

The Hebrew implies he Sinned before Eden, which is why the Version one uses actually matters.

 

[Fundaamental]

The Hebrew implies he Sinned before Eden, which is why the Version one uses actually matters.

I don't know Hebrew, but when you use the word implies, is that absolute ?.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Something is niggling me.

When satan was invited to heaven and granted every power God had, for satan to use at his disposal,

Was Satan actually fallen at this point and is there any scripture to show that satan was fallen at this point.

Can you give some sort of context as to what you’re referring to ? I’m not aware of this concept of Satan invited into heaven and given all of Gods power before or after he was cast out of heaven

satans power over man came because man followed his word and still does that’s the only power he can ever have over us if we give it to him

in the beginning God have all dominion on earth to mankind , Satan then soon after that deceived man with the knowledge of good and evil creating the law of sin and death inside of man this is satans only foothold in creation the weakness of man’s flesh after deception

There was a reason man wasn’t to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil because of cause this corruption inside thier mind and heart and thisnisnwhatbgoves Satan any power at all

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. ( this ain’t supposed to be in us it’s caused by the fruit of knowledge )

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-23

man was made to hear God believe him only and follow that belief we weren’t made to possess both good and evil knowledge within us that’s why God commanded then and warned them , then after Satan came and deceived them against Gods word

God didn’t give Satan power man did and God loves man and doesn’t want to destroy those who can be saved with Satan and his servants on earth Satan is using man as a shield for a short time using the power we have him over us d using Gods forebearance towerds man to stay alive until Jesus returns to give him his wages for what he’s done to Gods creation with all his minions and servants both angelic and human

God didn’t empower Satan he only let respected man’s dominion and free Will he gave them and let thier choices result in thier end because they kept rejecting his word and following the lies of the devil

when all the saved are saved Gods power will be shown to all creation and his evil plot will be burned in raging fire

 

[Magenta]

The scripture says Satan was called before the lord in a heavenly court.
How is that not being invited ?.

You are calling the devil/Satan a son of God?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

How do you see that as an invitation? .

Let's put it in colloquial terms.

Hey, we're going to see God.
Satan tags along.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I don't know Hebrew, but when you use the word implies, is that absolute ?.

It gives a different view than the Septuagint. That leaves, but which one did God give this to Moses? That answers for itself. Hebrew!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Just remember this:

Is the Septuagint the same as the Tanakh?
The Septuagint does not consist of a single, unified corpus. Rather, it is a collection of ancient translations of the Tanakh, along with other Jewish texts that are now commonly referred to as apocrypha.

What does apocrypha mean?
apocrypha, (from Greek apokryptein, “to hide away”), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term's usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded.

What is Esoteric Writings?

a personal interpretation!

 

[Fundaamental]

You are calling the devil/Satan a son of God?

am I, oh ok if you say so.

What do you mean by a son of God ?

I posted scripture that states angels where originally created to be ministers for Gods children.

Was Satan not an angel once or a cherub or what ever word is used for a guardian ?.

Was Satan a created devil ?

 

[Dino246]

none of this was the question firstly based in the opp.

Which I refreshed for you but you still haven answered.

The term is "OP" (original post), not "opp" which is usually short for "opportunity". I am not obligated to answer your question. If I do so, it is my choice only.

What your saying is Satan came befor God by his own accord.

No, what I am saying is that 'satan' came before the Lord, which is exactly what the Scripture says. I don't need to add anything as the text is clear.

Which is why I posted you the amplified version of Job 1 which clearly refutes your position.

No, it doesn't at all. I read carefully through what you posted; it says nothing about 'satan' being "brought" before the Lord at all.

It also refutes your position it was Satans own power but you missed the point

I didn't miss anything. Here is 1:12 in the Amplified:

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that Job has is in your power, only do not put your hand on the man himself.”

and here is 2:6 So the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, only spare his life."

My position is completely consistent with the wording of Scripture; yours is not. Read the text instead of skimming and mentally rewording it.

 

[Fundaamental]

Can you give some sort of context as to what you’re referring to ? I’m not aware of this concept of Satan invited into heaven and given all of Gods power before or after he was cast out of heaven

satans power over man came because man followed his word and still does that’s the only power he can ever have over us if we give it to him

in the beginning God have all dominion on earth to mankind , Satan then soon after that deceived man with the knowledge of good and evil creating the law of sin and death inside of man this is satans only foothold in creation the weakness of man’s flesh after deception

There was a reason man wasn’t to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil because of cause this corruption inside thier mind and heart and thisnisnwhatbgoves Satan any power at all

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. ( this ain’t supposed to be in us it’s caused by the fruit of knowledge )

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-23

man was made to hear God believe him only and follow that belief we weren’t made to possess both good and evil knowledge within us that’s why God commanded then and warned them , then after Satan came and deceived them against Gods word

God didn’t give Satan power man did and God loves man and doesn’t want to destroy those who can be saved with Satan and his servants on earth Satan is using man as a shield for a short time using the power we have him over us d using Gods forebearance towerds man to stay alive until Jesus returns to give him his wages for what he’s done to Gods creation with all his minions and servants both angelic and human

God didn’t empower Satan he only let respected man’s dominion and free Will he gave them and let thier choices result in thier end because they kept rejecting his word and following the lies of the devil

when all the saved are saved Gods power will be shown to all creation and his evil plot will be burned in raging fire

the scripture clearly says satan and other angels came befor the lord.

That's all it says.

But yet you and Dino are both suggesting they invited them selfs.

When scripture doesn't suggest that.

But yet you both pull me up for suggesting I can't see that.

But I can see God invited them.
But you both choose to say they invited them selfs ?.

Which seems far more incredible than my suggestion

 

[Magenta]

the scripture clearly says satan and other angels came befor the lord.

That's all it says.

But yet you and Dino are both suggesting they invited them selfs.

When scripture doesn't suggest that.

You're claiming Satan was invited. You have stated this a number of times. Scripture does not say that. You add it in.

The AMP is not one I would recommend. Besides, it doesn't say what you claim either.

 

[Dino246]

the scripture clearly says satan and other angels came befor the lord.

That's all it says.

But yet you and Dino are both suggesting they invited them selfs.

When scripture doesn't suggest that.

But yet you both pull me up for suggesting I can't see that.

But I can see God invited them.
But you both choose to say they invited them selfs ?.

Which seems far more incredible than my suggestion

Job 1:6 (NIV) One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

I stated that 'satan' came. I didn't "suggest" or "say" anything different. Kindly don't put words in my mouth.

That little word "also" tells you that 'satan' was not included among the angels, but was distinct from them in some way.

What you "see" is not in the text, which means you are adding it.

 

[Fundaamental]

Just remember this:

Is the Septuagint the same as the Tanakh?
The Septuagint does not consist of a single, unified corpus. Rather, it is a collection of ancient translations of the Tanakh, along with other Jewish texts that are now commonly referred to as apocrypha.

What does apocrypha mean?
apocrypha, (from Greek apokryptein, “to hide away”), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term's usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded.

What is Esoteric Writings?

a personal interpretation!

ok your saying implies is not absolute.

Because you first stated it implies satan sinned befor eden ?

Forgive me but you must have had some element of doubt for you to even use the word imply

 

[Magenta]

ok your saying implies is not absolute.

Because you first stated it implies satan sinned befor eden ?

Forgive me but you must have had some element of doubt for you to even use the word imply

Why state something as an absolute when it is not clearly delineated as such in Scripture?

You should take that tack yourself. It would do you good, rather than adding to,
assuming wrongfully, and outright claiming things Scripture does not in fact say.

 

[Dino246]

ok your saying implies is not absolute.

Because you first stated it implies satan sinned befor eden ?

Forgive me but you must have had some element of doubt for you to even use the word imply

The word "imply" is not used to express doubt, but rather that an idea is not clearly stated but is a reasonable conclusion from what is clearly stated. When I "imply" something, I hope or expect my hearers (or readers) to "read between the lines". I often use implication but it is more effective in speech where tone and mannerism can clearly convey meaning alongside the spoken words.

 

[CS1]

Something is niggling me.

When satan was invited to heaven and granted every power God had, for satan to use at his disposal,

Was Satan actually fallen at this point and is there any scripture to show that satan was fallen at this point.

where does it say Satan was granted every power of God?

 

[Fundaamental]

Why state something as an absolute when it is not clearly delineated as such in Scripture?

You should take that tack yourself. It would do you good, rather than adding to,
assuming wrongfully, and outright claiming things Scripture does not in fact say.

I haven't claimed no such thing, The thread is title a reasonable question.

If I was being absolute I wouldn't be asking questions.

But I would like an absolute answer 🙂

 

[Fundaamental]

where does it say Satan was granted every power of God?

I've already answered satan was controlling the weather to destroy Jobs family.

Can you think of anything more powerful than that ?.