A reasonable question
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maybe it would be easier if you read the amplified version of Job 1.
1 [a]There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God [with reverence] and abstained from and turned away from evil [because he honored God]. 2 Seven sons and three daughters were born to him. 3 He also possessed 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke (pairs) of oxen, 500 female donkeys, and a very great number of servants, so that this man was the greatest [and wealthiest and most respected] of all the men of the east (northern Arabia). 4 His sons used to go [in turn] and feast in the house of each one on his [b]day, and they would send word and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When the days of their feasting were over, Job would send [for them] and consecrate them, rising early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and [c]cursed God in their hearts.” Job did this at all [such] times.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (angels) came to present themselves before the [d]Lord, and Satan (adversary, accuser) also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming around on the earth and from walking around on it.” 8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered and reflected on My servant Job? For there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God [with reverence] and abstains from and turns away from evil [because he honors God].” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not put a hedge [of protection] around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands [and conferred prosperity and happiness upon him], and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But put forth Your hand now and touch (destroy) all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face.” 12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that Job has is in your power, only do not put your hand on the man himself.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord..
Twi points of reference here.
First being it mentions satan was brought befir the lord.
New living translation
Job 1.6
New Living Translation
One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.
This seems like satan was invited to heaven, from the above translation, satan is invited befor the lord in a heavenly court.
I'm sure heavenly means a meeting place in heaven for the counsels of heaven.
Maybe you see it differently.
Second point of reference was satan was controlling the weather, which he used fire from heaven to destroy what Job had
Which again, is indicating Satan having the power of God to use at his disposal.
Ok so I have confirmed, and I'm looking for scripture to clearly show that at the moment satan was given God's power to use at his disposal was satan fallen at the moment .?
The only answer I can find is satan was the snake in the garden of eden befor Job.
But I can't find scripture to confirm the snake in the garden of eden was satan.
1 [a]There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God [with reverence] and abstained from and turned away from evil [because he honored God]. 2 Seven sons and three daughters were born to him. 3 He also possessed 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke (pairs) of oxen, 500 female donkeys, and a very great number of servants, so that this man was the greatest [and wealthiest and most respected] of all the men of the east (northern Arabia). 4 His sons used to go [in turn] and feast in the house of each one on his [b]day, and they would send word and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When the days of their feasting were over, Job would send [for them] and consecrate them, rising early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and [c]cursed God in their hearts.” Job did this at all [such] times.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (angels) came to present themselves before the [d]Lord, and Satan (adversary, accuser) also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming around on the earth and from walking around on it.” 8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered and reflected on My servant Job? For there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God [with reverence] and abstains from and turns away from evil [because he honors God].” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not put a hedge [of protection] around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands [and conferred prosperity and happiness upon him], and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But put forth Your hand now and touch (destroy) all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face.” 12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that Job has is in your power, only do not put your hand on the man himself.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord..
Twi points of reference here.
First being it mentions satan was brought befir the lord.
New living translation
Job 1.6
New Living Translation
One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.
This seems like satan was invited to heaven, from the above translation, satan is invited befor the lord in a heavenly court.
I'm sure heavenly means a meeting place in heaven for the counsels of heaven.
Maybe you see it differently.
Second point of reference was satan was controlling the weather, which he used fire from heaven to destroy what Job had
Which again, is indicating Satan having the power of God to use at his disposal.
Ok so I have confirmed, and I'm looking for scripture to clearly show that at the moment satan was given God's power to use at his disposal was satan fallen at the moment .?
The only answer I can find is satan was the snake in the garden of eden befor Job.
But I can't find scripture to confirm the snake in the garden of eden was satan.
Yes, ‘satan’ was in the heavenly court. No, he was never ‘invited’. It’s simply the wrong word.
Yes, ‘satan’ was granted power over Job’s health, family, and goods. The power was always limited by God Himself. This is right in the text of Job 1 and 2:
“The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.”
Job 1:12 NIV
“The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.””
Job 2:6 NIV
‘Satan’ was not given God’s power; rather, Job was put under satan’s power.
Yes, ‘satan’ was granted power over Job’s health, family, and goods. The power was always limited by God Himself. This is right in the text of Job 1 and 2:
“The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.”
Job 1:12 NIV
“The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.””
Job 2:6 NIV
‘Satan’ was not given God’s power; rather, Job was put under satan’s power.
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why such the discrepancy on a choice of words.
The scripture says Satan was called before the lord in a heavenly court.
How is that not being invited ?.
Also satan used Gods power and rained down fire from heaven at his disposal. so how is that Satans power.
Where in scripture does it say the power satan had to destroy what Job had was his own power ?.
Further into my studies of being taken down a path that Satan was the snake in the garden.
Which I can't find supporting scripture to confirm this.
I'm now trying to also understand if Satan was the snake in the garden of eden, where is the scripture to support Satan was fallen at that point even if it was Satan.
The question to the thread was centred around finding out whether Satan was fallen when he was brought befor the lord,
So despite are indifference in a choice of words.
I'll ask you the question like this
Was Satan fallen at the point of time he was brought befor the lord.
The scripture says Satan was called before the lord in a heavenly court.
How is that not being invited ?.
Also satan used Gods power and rained down fire from heaven at his disposal. so how is that Satans power.
Where in scripture does it say the power satan had to destroy what Job had was his own power ?.
Further into my studies of being taken down a path that Satan was the snake in the garden.
Which I can't find supporting scripture to confirm this.
I'm now trying to also understand if Satan was the snake in the garden of eden, where is the scripture to support Satan was fallen at that point even if it was Satan.
The question to the thread was centred around finding out whether Satan was fallen when he was brought befor the lord,
So despite are indifference in a choice of words.
I'll ask you the question like this
Was Satan fallen at the point of time he was brought befor the lord.
Both Good and Bad Angels, except for the Ones in Chains like Peter and Jude describe, are able to attend all sons of God meetings.
19 Micaiah went on: “Now listen to what the Lord says! I saw the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven, with all his angels standing beside him.
20 The Lord asked, ‘Who will deceive Ahab so that he will go and be killed at Ramoth?’ Some of the angels said one thing, and others said something else,
21 until a spirit stepped forward, approached the Lord, and said, ‘I will deceive him.’
22 ‘How?’ the Lord asked. The spirit replied, ‘I will go and make all of Ahab's prophets tell lies.’ The Lord said, ‘Go and deceive him. You will succeed.’”
19 Micaiah went on: “Now listen to what the Lord says! I saw the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven, with all his angels standing beside him.
20 The Lord asked, ‘Who will deceive Ahab so that he will go and be killed at Ramoth?’ Some of the angels said one thing, and others said something else,
21 until a spirit stepped forward, approached the Lord, and said, ‘I will deceive him.’
22 ‘How?’ the Lord asked. The spirit replied, ‘I will go and make all of Ahab's prophets tell lies.’ The Lord said, ‘Go and deceive him. You will succeed.’”
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וַיֹּ֕אמֶר לָכֵ֖ן שְׁמַ֣ע דְּבַר־יְהֹוָ֑ה רָאִ֤יתִי אֶת־יְהֹוָה֙ יֹשֵׁ֣ב עַל־כִּסְא֔וֹ וְכׇל־צְבָ֤א הַשָּׁמַ֙יִם֙ עֹמֵ֣ד עָלָ֔יו מִֽימִינ֖וֹ וּמִשְּׂמֹאלֽוֹ׃
But [Micaiah] said, “I call upon you to hear the word of GOD ! I saw GOD seated upon a throne, with all the host of heaven standing in attendance to the right and to the left.
But [Micaiah] said, “I call upon you to hear the word of GOD ! I saw GOD seated upon a throne, with all the host of heaven standing in attendance to the right and to the left.
ahab was the husband of Jezabel a king who has openly invited both Good and bad profits into his life.
So I'm assuming that the lies where actually the truth.
I mean the false profits where only telling lies.
So when the angels of the lord decieved them they started to speak truth but to them that was a lie.
Only they never realised that until ahab was killed.
So there understanding is truth is a lie. And if they speak truth they speak a lie.
Only they where decieved into speaking a truth. Which was considered a lie by them.
So this is what the angel ment when the angel said I will make them speak a lie.
So I'm assuming that the lies where actually the truth.
I mean the false profits where only telling lies.
So when the angels of the lord decieved them they started to speak truth but to them that was a lie.
Only they never realised that until ahab was killed.
So there understanding is truth is a lie. And if they speak truth they speak a lie.
Only they where decieved into speaking a truth. Which was considered a lie by them.
So this is what the angel ment when the angel said I will make them speak a lie.
does this prove satan was fallen at the time he was brought befor the lord in a heavenly court ?
Not forgetting his name of Satan was referred to as Lucifer or in one or two reference a cherub in heaven after Job 1.
he needed permission of God to test children of God whom God had a protective hedge over.
The way I understand Adam and Eve, is they also had a protective hedge over them. Which I never chose to relate that to Job 1, scripture has.
Not forgetting his name of Satan was referred to as Lucifer or in one or two reference a cherub in heaven after Job 1.
he needed permission of God to test children of God whom God had a protective hedge over.
The way I understand Adam and Eve, is they also had a protective hedge over them. Which I never chose to relate that to Job 1, scripture has.
Satan was never granted every power God had for God said He does not give His glory to another, and He is a Spirit where all angels, and people are created out of physical matter.
God is an omnipresent Spirit so how can an angel be granted that.
Satan cannot even read our minds like we cannot read radio waves, or television waves, or internet waves in the air but all he can do is see our physical actions.
When Satan tempted Job it was only to afflict him physically, and take away things he loved, but he could not take Job's life.
Satan was fallen at that point for He afflicted Job and a good angel would not do that and Satan was fallen when Adam and Eve were in the garden for he tempted Eve to go against God.
Satan is nothing and a saint of God in a glorified body is greater than the angels which is why the Bible says the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints.
God is an omnipresent Spirit so how can an angel be granted that.
Satan cannot even read our minds like we cannot read radio waves, or television waves, or internet waves in the air but all he can do is see our physical actions.
When Satan tempted Job it was only to afflict him physically, and take away things he loved, but he could not take Job's life.
Satan was fallen at that point for He afflicted Job and a good angel would not do that and Satan was fallen when Adam and Eve were in the garden for he tempted Eve to go against God.
Satan is nothing and a saint of God in a glorified body is greater than the angels which is why the Bible says the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints.