Noah’s ark and faith

[mailmandan]

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated that Noah believed God about flooding the earth and the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:17) If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith in what God told him about flooding the earth, but of course, that was not the case.

 

[John146]

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated that Noah believed God about flooding the earth and the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:17) If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith in what God told him about flooding the earth, but of course, that was not the case.

Surely you’re not saying Noah was saved by means other than the shed blood of Jesus. I say that Noah was not saved like you and I. Noah obeyed God by faith and the best that could gain a man prior to the cross was safe from God’s wrath resting in Abraham’s bosom upon death.

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 10?

Can you ask a more specific question?
And if I do understand, just because something isn't recorded doesn't mean it didn't take place. Here God is emphasizing grace. Every story in the bible doesn't reveal the totality of truth.
The word of God was employed. There was hearing. Faith was the outcome.

 

[Cameron143]

Surely you’re not saying Noah was saved by means other than the shed blood of Jesus. I say that Noah was not saved like you and I. Noah obeyed God by faith and the best that could gain a man prior to the cross was safe from God’s wrath resting in Abraham’s bosom upon death.

Would Noah have known the story of Adam and Eve. If so, he knew of the promised redeemer and the shed blood. He would have been Messianic...he would have been anticipating Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well the fact that there was a "tree of life" in Eden in chapter 2 already tells us that God planned to give eternal life to those who were redeemed by grace. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (Gen 2:9) But Adam and Eve were barred from that tree (which in fact was a type of Christ). Now that tree is in the Paradise of God. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Rev 22:2)

wonderful again brother really great stuff lately edifying

“Well the fact that there was a "tree of life" in Eden in chapter 2 already tells us that God planned to give eternal life to those who were redeemed by grace. “

the two trees in Eden

One is of good and evil and brings death and is not for man

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The other tree in Eden is approved By God for mankind to eat of and promises life to the Hearer

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

Tree of life and the tree of good and evil are like the two great lights they represent two covenant words

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Romans 10?

Roman’s ten is about Moses he lives about 700 years after Noah before the law came Roman’s ten is about israel Noah wasn’t an Israelite they didn’t exist yet

israel began when God renamed Jacob israel

jacob is a great descendant of Noah things before Moses we’re different

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Where in the Bible do you find that he "prophesied about the Second Coming of Christ"? I don't find it there. And how do you know that his ascendence points to the Rapture, as you put it? Of course, Elijah ascends to heaven in a chariot. Are we going to ride chariots to heaven too? I'm not making fun of you. These are serious questions about interpreting the Bible.

In Jude

“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[John146]

Would Noah have known the story of Adam and Eve. If so, he knew of the promised redeemer and the shed blood. He would have been Messianic...he would have been anticipating Christ.

Wow! He would have known all that, huh? Funny, the Lord's disciples didn't even understand it.

 

[Cameron143]

Wow! He would have known all that, huh? Funny, the Lord's disciples didn't even understand it.

Again...exactly what the OT saints understood is hard to tell. But Abraham, we know, believed in the resurrection. And who knows what God revealed to them. Peter certainly had it revealed to him that Jesus was the Christ.
We are blessed to be on this side of the cross and in a time with Holy Spirit has been poured out on all flesh. But there is no reason to believe OT saints didn't anticipate a redeemer.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But there is no reason to believe OT saints didn't anticipate a redeemer.

That's correct. We could go as far back as Job who said: For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: (Job 19:25). That was even a prophecy about the Second Coming of Christ.

The word "Redeemer" (גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al') occurs in the book of Isaiah 13 times. It is also found in the Psalms, Proverbs and in Jeremiah. It meant kinsman-redeemer under the Law of Moses, but its greater meaning is Christ our Redeemer, who has ransomed us from eternal Hell, and also purchased with His own blood those whom He has saved. We are His purchased possession (Acts 20:28; Eph 1:14). Christ is our "Kinsman" in the sense that He took human form and became a Man in order to die for the sins of the whole world.

 

[John146]

Again...exactly what the OT saints understood is hard to tell. But Abraham, we know, believed in the resurrection. And who knows what God revealed to them. Peter certainly had it revealed to him that Jesus was the Christ.
We are blessed to be on this side of the cross and in a time with Holy Spirit has been poured out on all flesh. But there is no reason to believe OT saints didn't anticipate a redeemer.

Again, we at least know that the cross of Jesus Christ was a mystery until after it occurred. That much we do know. Not one OT saint looked forward to the cross, not one. The Jews were looking for a Messiah to redeem them from their enemies so they could worship God without fear. Here is Zacharias prophesying under the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

 

[Cameron143]

Again, we at least know that the cross of Jesus Christ was a mystery until after it occurred. That much we do know. Not one OT saint looked forward to the cross, not one. The Jews were looking for a Messiah to redeem them from their enemies so they could worship God without fear. Here is Zacharias prophesying under the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

The Jews should have understood the suffering servant from Isaiah 53. The could have understood the cross from Psalm 22 and other places. The fact that they missed it astounded Jesus. The whole of scripture concerns Him. In Genesis 3, God clearly says one is coming, born of a woman and His heel would be bruised. God announced His plan for a redeemer almost immediately after the Fall. And He spent 4 thousand years at least typifying it in history.
You can ignore all that if you like. I think it's rather significant.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Again, we at least know that the cross of Jesus Christ was a mystery until after it occurred. That much we do know. Not one OT saint looked forward to the cross, not one. The Jews were looking for a Messiah to redeem them from their enemies so they could worship God without fear. Here is Zacharias prophesying under the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

you

“Not one OT saint looked forward to the cross, not one. “

isaiah th e ot prophet

“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? ( you’ve quoted this in Paul’s writings )

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:1, 3-6‬ ‭KJV‬

paul elaborating which you have totally misunderstood

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, Their sound went into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you wuote this to try to end the gospel and create another but what he’s saying is the Old Testament folks also heard the message they didn’t obey God though they heard the gospel they didn’t obey his word and were cursed


peter an apostles of the lord like Paul

“who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Jews should have understood the suffering servant from Isaiah 53. The could have understood the cross from Psalm 22 and other places. The fact that they missed it astounded Jesus. The whole of scripture concerns Him. In Genesis 3, God clearly says one is coming, born of a woman and His heel would be bruised. God announced His plan for a redeemer almost immediately after the Fall. And He spent 4 thousand years at least typifying it in history.
You can ignore all that if you like. I think it's rather significant.

“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. ( 2 ot saints already in glory speaking of Jesus death in Jerusalem )

While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:29-31, 34-35‬ ‭

before they worshipped the calf

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.

Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25, 27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

That's correct. We could go as far back as Job who said: For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall
stand at the latter day upon the earth: (Job 19:25). That was even a prophecy about the Second Coming of Christ.

The word "Redeemer" (גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al') occurs in the book of Isaiah 13 times. It is also found in the Psalms, Proverbs and in Jeremiah. It meant kinsman-redeemer under the Law of Moses, but its greater meaning is Christ our Redeemer, who has ransomed us from eternal Hell, and also purchased with His own blood those whom He has saved. We are His purchased possession (Acts 20:28; Eph 1:14). Christ is our "Kinsman" in the sense that He took human form and became a Man in order to die for the sins of the whole world.

Job 19:25-27a

 

[John146]

The Jews should have understood the suffering servant from Isaiah 53. The could have understood the cross from Psalm 22 and other places. The fact that they missed it astounded Jesus. The whole of scripture concerns Him. In Genesis 3, God clearly says one is coming, born of a woman and His heel would be bruised. God announced His plan for a redeemer almost immediately after the Fall. And He spent 4 thousand years at least typifying it in history.
You can ignore all that if you like. I think it's rather significant.

You ignored Luke 1. The cross was a mystery hid by God on purpose. Why? So it would take place. If Satan understood that the promised Messiah was going to give his life as a ransom for sin, he never would have initiated the cross to happen. Satan thought he was gaining the victory.

1 Corinthians 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[Cameron143]

You ignored Luke 1. The cross was a mystery hid by God on purpose. Why? So it would take place. If Satan understood that the promised Messiah was going to give his life as a ransom for sin, he never would have initiated the cross to happen. Satan thought he was gaining the victory.

1 Corinthians 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

A couple of things...
What verse or verses are you wanting me to consider in Luke?
The verses in 1 Corinthians you cited only mention the Roman authorities and they wouldn't have done it because of the wrath that was coming their way for mistreating Jesus.
Satan knows the Bible better than you and I do. While he may not have understood fully, I'm pretty sure He knows the serpent getting its head crushed is Him.
And while I have enjoyed the polite conversation and the back and forth, I don't feel like the trenches are going to move. But I have learned a different perspective and your respectful manner of sharing has been refreshing.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Good thoughts.

The above, however is very important. Had Noah NOT obeyed God and NOT built the Ark, would he still have been saved through faith? Or would his faith been found lacking?

Obedience to "ones" CALLING is an important part of all of this IMO.

You know very well what happens to people who disobey GOD, I ask you why this question?

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

He did on a few occasions to his disciples which they did not understand.

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (the gospel of salvation)
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Jesus mainly preached the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews only. This was the good news of the restored kingdom of Israel with the Jewish Messiah reigning on David's throne.

no, no, no, not to the jews only, initially yes but before his ascension he said to the disciples preach the good news to all nations!!

mark 15: 16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Peace be upon you.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Simply put, the word God and the word heaven are not the same. The kingdom of God cannot by synonymous with the kingdom of heaven. The first verse in all the bible tells us so. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. God is a spirit. Heaven is a created place.

They are the same!! I assure you why would they be different, this is a known fact. Please explain then the differences using scriptures. they are synonymous that is all.

Blessings.