Mark 10:9 what GOD has joined together.....even for bad marriages?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective....James 5:16. There was a time in my 40's, I had read this verse. I thought since GOD wasn't listening to me, maybe he will listen to someone else. I would only ask those whom I knew were good Christians, to pray about me finding companionship. That didn't work either. I had one Pastor tell me, "John, I don't know why, but GOD is just not listening to you on this topic. I'm sorry" 30 years later, no change.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
113
God because of the hardness of your hearts, gave you permission to divorce your wives for any reason in the Old Testament.

But from the beginning it was not so; and the New Testament understanding is that the only reasons you may divorce your spouse is if the spouse commits adultery or else abandonment.

Also, a wife can leave her husband (without divorcing him) in the case of physical abuse.
Yea there are a lot of detailed rules oaul explained about marriage and divorce and all of it in 1 Corinthians 7 you can see a lot of things from the law that he’s teaching the church but also it’s not the same , it’s more revealed and detailed I mean
About ten different details of the doctrine Paul preached regarding these things are in that chapter
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
Jesus did address the idea of woman divorcing her husband, in Mark 10:

NIV
5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.

KJV
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.


It seems women were somehow able to divorce back then, and it was a reality regardless of whether or not it was allowed. They were somehow able to divorce.
This is a perfect example of why biblical hermeneutics is so important. Hebrew (Jewish) women weren’t, and to this day according to the synagogue still aren’t, able to initiate a divorce. Clearly something wrong with the translation.

Please take the time to test the Greek word (Apoluo) to these 8 rules of hermeneutics. While you’re at it do the same with it’s Hebrew counterpart (Shelach). The same is recommended with the Greek word (Apostasion) and the Hebrew (Keriythuth).

A wonderful exercise for anyone “Berean” enough to take it on.

Definition.
Usage.
Context.
Historical background.
Logic.
Precedent.
Unity.
Inference.

Unfortunately some translators made a terrible error here, clearly allowing pre-established doctrine to override contrary hermeneutical evidence.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
This is a perfect example of why biblical hermeneutics is so important. Hebrew (Jewish) women weren’t, and to this day according to the synagogue still aren’t, able to initiate a divorce. Clearly something wrong with the translation.

Please take the time to test the Greek word (Apoluo) to these 8 rules of hermeneutics. While you’re at it do the same with it’s Hebrew counterpart (Shelach). The same is recommended with the Greek word (Apostasion) and the Hebrew (Keriythuth).

A wonderful exercise for anyone “Berean” enough to take it on.

Definition.
Usage.
Context.
Historical background.
Logic.
Precedent.
Unity.
Inference.

Unfortunately some translators made a terrible error here, clearly allowing pre-established doctrine to override contrary hermeneutical evidence.
Way too many Pastors and Christians don't really study the bible. They think if they just read the verses in English, they're done. They don't look at context and actual meaning of words and verses.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,080
721
113
This is a perfect example of why biblical hermeneutics is so important. Hebrew (Jewish) women weren’t, and to this day according to the synagogue still aren’t, able to initiate a divorce. Clearly something wrong with the translation.

Please take the time to test the Greek word (Apoluo) to these 8 rules of hermeneutics. While you’re at it do the same with it’s Hebrew counterpart (Shelach). The same is recommended with the Greek word (Apostasion) and the Hebrew (Keriythuth).

A wonderful exercise for anyone “Berean” enough to take it on.

Definition.
Usage.
Context.
Historical background.
Logic.
Precedent.
Unity.
Inference.

Unfortunately some translators made a terrible error here, clearly allowing pre-established doctrine to override contrary hermeneutical evidence.

What do you think "And if a woman shall put away her husband " means? I know only men were able to perform the legal act of issuing the divorce. Separation and divorce are basically the same thing, however with separation remarriage isn't allowed. Whether or not you separate or divorce (except for sexual immorality), Jesus says remarriage is adultery.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,080
721
113
What do you think "And if a woman shall put away her husband " means? I know only men were able to perform the legal act of issuing the divorce. Separation and divorce are basically the same thing, however with separation remarriage isn't allowed. Whether or not you separate or divorce (except for sexual immorality), Jesus says remarriage is adultery.
In those times, an older woman may not even be interested in remarriage. There was an assumption that older women no longer had lust issues, which is why Paul recommended that "young widows" marry.

The idea of wife putting away the husband is not mentioned in the Old Testament; this is something new in the New Testament.
https://www.internationalstandardbible.com/D/divorce-in-the-old-testament.html
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
In those times, an older woman may not even be interested in remarriage. There was an assumption that older women no longer had lust issues, which is why Paul recommended that "young widows" marry.

The idea of wife putting away the husband is not mentioned in the Old Testament; this is something new in the New Testament.
https://www.internationalstandardbible.com/D/divorce-in-the-old-testament.html
It a hormone issues. They encouraged people to get married young.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,080
721
113
When I first read that Paul recommended that young widows marry a long time ago, I found that odd because, 1) guys want virgins and 2) husbands who passed away would naturally would not to share their wife with someone else. In ancient cultures (India, China, etc.) widowed women were not allowed to marry. They were supposed to be loyal to one husband until death. In India, sati was practiced.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
When I first read that Paul recommended that young widows marry a long time ago, I found that odd because, 1) guys want virgins and 2) husbands who passed away would naturally would not to share their wife with someone else. In ancient cultures (India, China, etc.) widowed women were not allowed to marry. They were supposed to be loyal to one husband until death. In India, sati was practiced.
He seemed to put down young women, calling them gossipers and wandering into sin. He never said that about the men.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
What do you think "And if a woman shall put away her husband " means?
Putt away (Apoluo) means exactly what is says, nothing more.

The same thing it means in verse 27b.

KJV 1 Corinthians 7:27-28 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

2 of Paul’s (God’s) words are translated as loosed in these verses.

The first is lusis: a loosening that is specifically divorce. Usage. 1

The second is Luō: A primary verb; to loosen (literally or figuratively): - break (up) destroy dissolve (un-) loose melt put off. From the root word Apoluo.
Luō is used 46 times in the NT, not once as divorce.
Apoluo is used 89 times in the NT and believe it or not, divorce is not named as a usage in the Strong’s.

Remember, God’s word is perfect but no English translation is.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
Putt away (Apoluo) means exactly what is says, nothing more.

The same thing it means in verse 27b.

KJV 1 Corinthians 7:27-28 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

2 of Paul’s (God’s) words are translated as loosed in these verses.

The first is lusis: a loosening that is specifically divorce. Usage. 1

The second is Luō: A primary verb; to loosen (literally or figuratively): - break (up) destroy dissolve (un-) loose melt put off. From the root word Apoluo.
Luō is used 46 times in the NT, not once as divorce.
Apoluo is used 89 times in the NT and believe it or not, divorce is not named as a usage in the Strong’s.

Remember, God’s word is perfect but no English translation is.
Interesting
 
May 24, 2023
573
111
43
1 Corinthians 7:10-13
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

Hebrews 13:4
4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:31-32
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


Again divorce is never recommended by God, and even worse is remarriage, which is absolutely forbidden, since it is adultery, and it will result in automatic excommunication from the body of Christ. Be warned of this thing, for God does not take it lightly. Ultimately God expects the married to work their issues out in a mature and civil manner and to not divorce.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
Putt away (Apoluo) means exactly what is says, nothing more.

The same thing it means in verse 27b.

KJV 1 Corinthians 7:27-28 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

2 of Paul’s (God’s) words are translated as loosed in these verses.

The first is lusis: a loosening that is specifically divorce. Usage. 1

The second is Luō: A primary verb; to loosen (literally or figuratively): - break (up) destroy dissolve (un-) loose melt put off. From the root word Apoluo.
Luō is used 46 times in the NT, not once as divorce.
Apoluo is used 89 times in the NT and believe it or not, divorce is not named as a usage in the Strong’s.

Remember, God’s word is perfect but no English translation is.
The real mind bender occurs once you realize what Paul is actually saying in the above verse.

If Apoluo/Luo means broken up, dissolve, putt off etc. but does not mean divorce then what is he actually saying? Let’s see.

V27 paraphrased. Are you married, seek not a divorce. Are you broken up (estranged) from your wife, seek not a wife but if you do marry it is not a sin.

What?!? Did Paul just say that if a man hasn’t been legally divorced from his wife it is not a sin to remarry? Yes, that’s exactly what he said. How can this be?

Context, context, context.
Paul is speaking to the Corinthians, a gentile church of new believers. Prior to conversion these believers were engaged in very different practices when it came to “marriage”, none of which were according to Jewish law.

Think of the Samaritan woman, half Israelite and half gentile. She had 5 “husbands” but the “husband” she currently had was not her husband. Hmm 🤔 Perhaps another interesting study into the Greek word anēr is in order.

Anyway, back to Paul. Can we really expect Paul to lay such a heavy burden on the Corinthian men and women who found themselves in similar situations as the Samaritan woman upon conversion? Some will say, but Jesus said in Matthew, Mark and Luke…

Remember your context. In verse 12 Paul began this section with, to the rest speak I, not the Lord. This indicates that Jesus never spoke to the following issues. Let me repeat that. Jesus never addressed the issues Paul speaks of from v12 through v38.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
1 Corinthians 7:10-13
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

Hebrews 13:4
4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:31-32
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


Again divorce is never recommended by God, and even worse is remarriage, which is absolutely forbidden, since it is adultery, and it will result in automatic excommunication from the body of Christ. Be warned of this thing, for God does not take it lightly. Ultimately God expects the married to work their issues out in a mature and civil manner and to not divorce.
even if there is abuse and a threat to the wife and children?
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
The real mind bender occurs once you realize what Paul is actually saying in the above verse.

If Apoluo/Luo means broken up, dissolve, putt off etc. but does not mean divorce then what is he actually saying? Let’s see.

V27 paraphrased. Are you married, seek not a divorce. Are you broken up (estranged) from your wife, seek not a wife but if you do marry it is not a sin.

What?!? Did Paul just say that if a man hasn’t been legally divorced from his wife it is not a sin to remarry? Yes, that’s exactly what he said. How can this be?

Context, context, context.
Paul is speaking to the Corinthians, a gentile church of new believers. Prior to conversion these believers were engaged in very different practices when it came to “marriage”, none of which were according to Jewish law.

Think of the Samaritan woman, half Israelite and half gentile. She had 5 “husbands” but the “husband” she currently had was not her husband. Hmm 🤔 Perhaps another interesting study into the Greek word anēr is in order.

Anyway, back to Paul. Can we really expect Paul to lay such a heavy burden on the Corinthian men and women who found themselves in similar situations as the Samaritan woman upon conversion? Some will say, but Jesus said in Matthew, Mark and Luke…

Remember your context. In verse 12 Paul began this section with, to the rest speak I, not the Lord. This indicates that Jesus never spoke to the following issues. Let me repeat that. Jesus never addressed the issues Paul speaks of from v12 through v38.
More to consider.

1 Corinthians 7:12-15 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Again, in verses 12-38 Paul is addressing issues that Jesus didn’t address. In other words, Jesus’ statements In Matthew 5/19, Mark 10 & Luke 16 are not applicable.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
More to consider.

1 Corinthians 7:12-15 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Again, in verses 12-38 Paul is addressing issues that Jesus didn’t address. In other words, Jesus’ statements In Matthew 5/19, Mark 10 & Luke 16 are not applicable.
If the unbelieving spouse leaves, the believing spouse is free to marry again?