Three Questions for Calvinists

[Nehemiah6]

Your post makes no sense.

OK. Let's put it this way:
Did God elect the nation of Israel to be His witnesses? Absolutely
Did every Jew get saved? Absolutely not

If God were electing for salvation, then absolutely every Hebrew and every Jew would have been saved. After all they were the elect nation. But the fact that the majority of Jews rejected Christ proves that your theory about divine election is false. And Paul laments this fact:

ROMANS 9: THE ELECT NATION OF ISRAEL DID NOT GET SAVED IN TOTALITY
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Iconoclast]

OK. Let's put it this way:
Did God elect the nation of Israel to be His witnesses? Absolutely
Did every Jew get saved? Absolutely not

If God were electing for salvation, then absolutely every Hebrew and every Jew would have been saved. After all they were the elect nation. But the fact that the majority of Jews rejected Christ proves that your theory about divine election is false. And Paul laments this fact:

ROMANS 9: THE ELECT NATION OF ISRAEL DID NOT GET SAVED IN TOTALITY
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Hello Nehemiah,

God elected His people out of that one nation. Not every Israelite was elect, only those of promise;
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[Iconoclast]

Same difference. God foreknew those who would believe on the Lord Jesus Christ since He knows the end from the beginning.

God DOES NOT elect some for salvation and the rest for damnation. That is a damnable doctrine. But God does elect His children for glorification -- that they may be "conformed to the image of His Son". And all could be saved is all would repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,5 yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.6




1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27–28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3–5
5 Acts 15:18
6 Rom. 9:11,13,16,18

 

[Magenta]

Romans 9:6b-8 Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel... It is the children of promise who are regarded as offspring.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Luke 14
15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?

V16

Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?

V18

So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?

V24
So much for the CALVIE'S "I" Fantasy.

 

[Shepherd]

Yes, I conclude that the man invited them, they knew they were being invited, and that the man WANTED them to come to the supper. It was they who put it off. And, of course, this whole thing is speaking of God's invitation which men refuse. But no amount of such evidence is going to convince a Calvinist of this because THEY choose not to. Nobody, not even God, will make that choice for them: It is their own.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Luke 14
15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?
Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?
So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?

read this one along side that one

“And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

The kingdom of heaven is like unto

the story that Jesus is about to tell is a visual example we can grasp thats communicating a greater message about God and his kingdom


a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding the tribes of Israel ) and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, ( the latter prophets ) saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( Israel’s constant rejection and persecution of gods ot prophets prophets )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( 70ad Jerusalem was destroyed )


Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( great commission )

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:1-


then read this one

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them,

Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a repetetive lesson about what happened to israelBecause they never would repent and believe in the lord

One more

“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( the warnings in the ot prophets is all coming to pass it did after Jesus day and still is )

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: ( dispersia) and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

each adds differing details and aspects of a basic and true concept it’s how Jesus taught there’s so much the lord and his apostles taught it’s all communicating a message

 

[Shepherd]

read this one along side that one

“And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

The kingdom of heaven is like unto

the story that Jesus is about to tell is a visual example we can grasp thats communicating a greater message about God and his kingdom


a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding the tribes of Israel ) and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, ( the latter prophets ) saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( Israel’s constant rejection and persecution of gods ot prophets prophets )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( 70ad Jerusalem was destroyed )


Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( great commission )

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:1-


then read this one

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them,

Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a repetetive lesson about what happened to israelBecause they never would repent and believe in the lord

One more

“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( the warnings in the ot prophets is all coming to pass it did after Jesus day and still is )

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: ( dispersia) and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

each adds differing details and aspects of a basic and true concept it’s how Jesus taught there’s so much the lord and his apostles taught it’s all communicating a message

 

[Shepherd]

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37
"would" is a form of the word "will". God's "will" was that they be gathered. But you won't accept that because it's not your "will" either.

 

[rogerg]

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37
"would" is a form of the word "will". God's "will" was that they be gathered. But you won't accept that because it's not your "will" either.

[Mat 23:38 KJV] 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


The verse is saying that God would cease to use earthly Judaism (in the earthly corporate sense) as His device for the furtherance of His gospel - that the true gospel was not within it, and thereby, Judaism ("your house") is left spiritually desolate. The children of God are still to be gathered together but gathered together by God Himself not through Judaism.

 

[Shepherd]

You missed it entirely. How sad.

 

[rogerg]

read this one along side that one

“And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

The kingdom of heaven is like unto

the story that Jesus is about to tell is a visual example we can grasp thats communicating a greater message about God and his kingdom


a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding the tribes of Israel ) and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, ( the latter prophets ) saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( Israel’s constant rejection and persecution of gods ot prophets prophets )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( 70ad Jerusalem was destroyed )


Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( great commission )

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:1-


then read this one

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them,

Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a repetetive lesson about what happened to israelBecause they never would repent and believe in the lord

One more

“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( the warnings in the ot prophets is all coming to pass it did after Jesus day and still is )

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: ( dispersia) and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

each adds differing details and aspects of a basic and true concept it’s how Jesus taught there’s so much the lord and his apostles taught it’s all communicating a message

No one can gain true spiritual understanding and faith unless they have become born-again, given spiritual life, a new heart, and a new mind by God. Until then, everyone remains spiritually dead and blind and cannot respond to God.

[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[Jhn 12:37-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Rev 21:2 KJV]
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[rogerg]

You missed it entirely. How sad.

Was that reply directed to me?

 

[Shepherd]

Was that reply directed to me?

Yes. The point was: gathering Israel together was God's will. But they rejected that of their own free will. If you agree, I apologize for misunderstanding.

 

[rogerg]

Yes. The point was: gathering Israel together was God's will. But they rejected that of their own free will. If you agree, I apologize for misunderstanding.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't think that I do, so no apology necessary - but perhaps I am still missing your point.

Just to understand, you see the gathering together of the nation of Israel together as the point of that verse even though
it says, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,"?

And in a prior verse:

[Mat 23:35, 37 KJV]
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No one can gain true spiritual understanding and faith unless they have become born-again, given spiritual life, a new heart, and a new mind by God. Until then, everyone remains spiritually dead and blind and cannot respond to God.

[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[Jhn 12:37-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Rev 21:2 KJV]
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

yeah exactly that’s what accepting and believing the gospel does changes your mind and heart it doesn’t just randomly happen

it happens as we hear the lord teaching us the truth and believe it but some folks see it differently

It happens when we stop rejecting the doctrine like this that’s teaching us true things that save souls

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

and be ye kind one to another,

tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-32‬

It happens because we stop rejecting what’s there and saying “ no no we’re saved by grace not works “ it doesn’t change our kind until we start allowing what’s really there to be true to us that’s the factor that changes our mind accepting the true words of God in the gospel

 

[rogerg]

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Have to be taught of Him first. For that, we must be

yeah exactly that’s what accepting and believing the gospel does changes your mind and heart it doesn’t just randomly happen

it happens as we hear the lord teaching us the truth and believe it but some folks see it differently

It happens when we stop rejecting the doctrine like this that’s teaching us true things that save souls

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Wrong. Only God's elect can hear His teaching.
In order to be "taught by him", one has to first have Him; to have Him, one must have been indwelt by Him; to have been indwelt by Him, one must have become born-again; to have become born-again one must have become saved.
No one can "hear" spiritually (have ears to hear) until and unless that occurs. Here are verses to demonstrate that.

[Jhn 10:25-29 KJV]
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

[1Jo 4:6 KJV]
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Wrong. Do you see the word "spirit" in the above? Man's mind can only be renewed by the Holy Spirit not by man: the mind of man cannot spiritually renew itself because it is completely corrupt in spiritual matters. In the following verse, if we read it closely and carefully, we can see that to be transformed, the mind first must be renewed, and that renewing as a result of, and as a demonstration of
("may prove"), the "perfect will of God" not man. Notice in Eze 36:26 below that it is God who places within someone that new spirit.

[Rom 12:2 KJV] 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

In the following verse, we can see that for the spirit of the mind to be renewed, God must first give to those a new spirit. That
can occur from, and only from, becoming born-again - God's work, not man's.

[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It happens because we stop rejecting what’s there and saying “ no no we’re saved by grace not works “ it doesn’t change our kind until we start allowing what’s really there to be true to us that’s the factor that changes our mind accepting the true words of God in the gospel

Just to be clear, are you saying that you believe man is saved by their works, or do I misunderstand you?

 

[rogerg]

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in
Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

"Have to be taught of Him first. For that, we must be"

Just noticed that the first part of my prior reply was truncated. The point was that to be able to be taught and to hear one must first
become born-again by God - of God, not man.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Luke 14
15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?
Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?
So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?

The answers are "yes," "yes," and "because they didn't come to the banquet." This parable warns us to make the "kingdom of God" the number one priority in our lives, that is, loving God above in grateful obedience to him, since the 3-in-1 God is our supreme Ruler, and we are his subjects.

 

[Shepherd]

The answers are "yes," "yes," and "because they didn't come to the banquet." This parable warns us to make the "kingdom of God" the number one priority in our lives, that is, loving God above in grateful obedience to him, since the 3-in-1 God is our supreme Ruler, and we are his subjects.

Of course the answers are "yes".
My point in posting this was: Here it clearly tells us that God calls people to Him, wants them to come to Him and they willfully put Him off and reject Him. Calvinist doctrine, on the other hand, teaches that God never even wanted these people to come to Him so He never "unconditionally elected" them or imparted His "irresistable grace" to them.