Who Justifieth the Ungodly

reneweddaybyday · May 13, 2023

... nice try, brightfame52 ... you stated here they ... "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".

So, no, even under your erroneous dogma it definitely is not "predetermined they will believe in time".

What is "predetermined" is that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) will find themselves under God's wrath.

What is "predetermined" is that those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) ... they are the ones who believe the gospel when they hear it and it is the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... not their faith, but the power of God:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness

The light of Scripture reveals your dogma to be erroneous ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

brightfame52 · May 13, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Its the Truth, the Chosen generation will believe, they were chosen, then later called out of darkness 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

reneweddaybyday · May 13, 2023

brightfame52 said:

again brightfame52 ... the above statement completely contradicts your prior statement:

brightfame52 said:

you can continue to ignore your obvious contradictions (which, it is crystal clear, that is what you are doing) ... but the truth is your erroneous dogma not only contradicts the truth of Scripture ... your erroneous dogma contradicts itself ... and you turn a blind eye in your attempts to rationalize your error ...

Isaiah 29:10-13 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men
.

reneweddaybyday · May 14, 2023

brightfame52 said:

you still do not get it (or you probably do get it, but you're being deliberately obtuse} ...

on the one hand you claim they "will believe"

and on the other hand you claim they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners"

I have given you more than one opportunity to step away from your claim that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ... and you have refused to do so.

Even in the few opportunities today you refuse to admit that what you claimed in Post 1804 is error.

brightfame52 said:

ripping verse 9 out of the context within which the Author of Scripture has place it in your futile attempt to manipulate the truth of Scripture is not proper.

1 Peter 2:7-9 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

Do you believe, brightfame52??? Again, it appears to me you never have believed since, as you stated in Post 1804, you "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".

brightfame52 said:

again you rip verses from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed them in order to support your dogma ...

those who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness - 2 Thess 2:12 ... are those who reject God's calling by the gospel. God calls all descendants of Adam ... those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) and believe not the truth (2 Thess 2:12) will find themselves rejected by God ... not because God did not call, but because they rejected Him.
.

brightfame52 · May 14, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

again brightfame52 ... the above statement completely contradicts your prior statement:

you can continue to ignore your obvious contradictions (which, it is crystal clear, that is what you are doing) ... but the truth is your erroneous dogma not only contradicts the truth of Scripture ... your erroneous dogma contradicts itself ... and you turn a blind eye in your attempts to rationalize your error ...

Isaiah 29:10-13 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men
.

Those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation, will believe in time, thats the result of election, of being chosen.

brightfame52 · May 14, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

The Chosen Generation, chosen in Christ before the foundation, they will believe in time, when they are effectually called out of darkness into His Marvelous Light. 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Remember the order, chosen, then called !

again Chosen and then called 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

reneweddaybyday · May 14, 2023

again ... what you stated here:

brightfame52 said:

still completely contradicts what you stated in Post 1804:

brightfame52 said:

what Bible are you reading??? what Scripture reference do you rely on to support your assertion that sin is ever acceptable to God ... alternatively, you can own up to the fact that what you stated in Post 1804 is error ...

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

reneweddaybyday · May 14, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... do not conflate what is written in Eph 1 with what is written in 1 Peter 2.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

the word "chosen" in 1 Peter 2:9 is an adjective ... not a verb. An adjective describes a noun. In 1 Peter 2:9 there are several adjective/noun groupings:

chosen (adjective) generation (noun)
royal (adjective) priesthood (noun)
holy (adjective) nation (noun)
peculiar (adjective) people (noun)

As a chosen generation ... royal priesthood ... holy nation ... peculiar people, the born again ones (plural) are to shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.

brightfame52 said:

the word "chosen" in 2 Thess 2:13 is not the same Greek word used for "chosen" in 1 Peter 2:9 ... and I'm sure in your house of mirrors, the differentiation is to be ignored ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · May 15, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

again ... what you stated here:

still completely contradicts what you stated in Post 1804:

what Bible are you reading??? what Scripture reference do you rely on to support your assertion that sin is ever acceptable to God ... alternatively, you can own up to the fact that what you stated in Post 1804 is error ...

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

Those who are elected before time, the Chosen seed or Generation, will believe in time.

brightfame52 · May 15, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Only the chosen are called to believe the Gospel of their Salvation in time Eph 1:4,13

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

later in the paragraph,

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

reneweddaybyday · May 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

if they "will believe in time", then your claim that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is in error.

will you ever acknowledge that what you claimed in Post 1804 is error??? ... or that your claim completely contradicts what is written in Scripture??? ... or that your claim contradicts your own dogma???

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

.

reneweddaybyday · May 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

read the verse, brightfame52:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

after that ye heard the word of truth, ye trusted ...
after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated ... born again)
.

brightfame52 · May 16, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

if they "will believe in time", then your claim that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is in error.

will you ever acknowledge that what you claimed in Post 1804 is error??? ... or that your claim completely contradicts what is written in Scripture??? ... or that your claim contradicts your own dogma???

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

.

Yes they will believe in time, they are Christs and Abrahams Spiritual Seed.

brightfame52 · May 16, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

The Gospel will be sent and believed by those who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 and redeemed by His Blood Eph 1:7 thats their good news Eph 1:13 !

rogerg · May 16, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

No - wrong again. One's trust does not bring spiritual rebirth. To hear and to trust is FROM, or as a result of, spiritual rebirth, not cause. To be sealed, is to receive the mark of the Holy Spirit, which mark, is manifested by that trust/belief - and is after the fact, not before.
To be sealed is not the same thing as to be indwelled by Him: trust/belief is the "earnest" (money) of the inheritance,
which "earnest" is given by God as a confirmation of salvation.

[1Jo 2:27 KJV]
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[Eph 1:11, 13-14 KJV]
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ...
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

[Rom 8:11 KJV] 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

brightfame52 · May 16, 2023

rogerg

Right Roger, however that poster cant see that, I have been explaining things like that for months and months now to them.

They think being sealed is the same as being quickened, or given Spiritual life, but they had spiritual life in order to Spiritually hear the Gospel of their Salvation.

So they think a spiritually dead sinner, hears the Gospel, believes and is regenerated and sealed.

rogerg · May 16, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Not only do they not have to believe to be saved, they can't believe until saved. There is no stepping away from that.
And by your statement, you make man into his own saviour, and take salvation away from Christ.

rogerg · May 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Yeah, brightfame52, I know you have (and I have too). He is completely blind spiritually and simply unable to grasp the meaning of grace. Nevertheless, there may be those who read our replies (to him) and eventually comprehend what we've been trying to convey. Plus, I just don't like his commentaries and opinions left unrefuted.

brightfame52 · May 16, 2023

rogerg said:

Yeah, brightfame52, I know you have (and I have too). He is completely blind spiritually and simply unable to grasp the meaning of grace. Nevertheless, there may be those who read our replies (to him) and eventually comprehend what we've been trying to convey. Plus, I just don't like his commentaries and opinions left unrefuted.

I believe its a female !

rogerg · May 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Oops

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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