Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#3,361
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#3,361
brightfame52 said:
Rom 5:18 shows that all Christ died for are Justified by His Blood alone.
Click to expand...
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,362
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,362
Remission/Forgiveness of sins = Justification !

None in false religion today believe that those Christ died for, by His redeeming death alone, that they are all Justified before God, yes even before they believe, and even while they are unbelieving enemies by nature ! This is True because by His death alone for them, they have received in the Court of Heaven before the Throne of God, Remission/Forgiveness of sins, which is also a branch Justification ! Listen to the words of Christ here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The word for here eis means that the shedding of His Blood for that particular many resulted in the remission of their sins, which also means Justification !

There is Salvation resulted in also in the remission of sins, Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Yes all their sins, past, present and future have been forgiven because of the shedding of the blood, which also means they are Justified before God, even when they have not been yet Justified before their own consciousness and while they are in unbelief and ignorance !

Jesus Christ was raised from the dead because of our Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

That word Justification, the greek word dikaiōsis means:

I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

See that's what Remission of sins means, God declaring men and women free from guilt based upon the blood shed of Christ alone !

The word remission in Matt 26:28 is the greek word aphesis which means:

II. forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

And again that equates to Justification:

the act of God declaring men free from guilt

This is not based upon anyone's faith, or repentance or even believing the Gospel, those things have nothing to do with it, but based solely upon the Blood shed of Jesus Christ ! 17
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#3,363
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#3,363
brightfame52 said:
all Justified before God, yes even before they believe, and even while they are unbelieving enemies by nature !
Click to expand...
inasmuch as Scripture tells us we are justified by faith, your erroneous dogma falls apart in the first sentence of your "commentary".




brightfame52 said:
This is True
Click to expand...
nope ... Scripture is "True" ... and Scripture tells us:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ




brightfame52 said:
Listen to the words of Christ here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Click to expand...
you left out some of the words spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 26:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The Lord Jesus Christ told His disciples take, eat: this is my body when He broke the bread ... then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to the disciples and told them drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for all ... the many are those who eat and drink. Those who refuse to eat the drink will have no Advocate when they stand before the judgment seat:

1 John 2:

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.




brightfame52 said:
all their sins, past, present and future have been forgiven because of the shedding of the blood, which also means they are Justified before God, even when they have not been yet Justified before their own consciousness and while they are in unbelief and ignorance !
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: ... it is not our "own consciousness" which makes known righteousness to us. It is God Who imputes righteousness ... and God imputes righteousness when we believe ... not before ... not after ... but when

On the cross, Jesus took our sin upon Himself and purchased our salvation. We have “been justified by his blood” (Romans 5:9), and part of that justification is an imputation of His own righteousness. Paul puts it this way: “For our sake [God] made [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus is righteous by virtue of His very nature—He is the Son of God. By God’s grace, “through faith in Jesus Christ,” that righteousness is given “to all who believe” (Romans 3:22). That’s imputation: the giving of Christ’s righteousness to sinners.​




brightfame52 said:
Jesus Christ was raised from the dead because of our Justification
Click to expand...
The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the dead even if no one believed:

Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.




brightfame52 said:
This is not based upon anyone's faith, or repentance or even believing the Gospel, those things have nothing to do with it, but based solely upon the Blood shed of Jesus Christ !
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: ... ripping a verse from it's context does not change the verse to your stated erroneous belief.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,364
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,364
reneweddaybyday said:
inasmuch as Scripture tells us we are justified by faith, your erroneous dogma falls apart in the first sentence of your "commentary".





nope ... Scripture is "True" ... and Scripture tells us:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





you left out some of the words spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 26:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The Lord Jesus Christ told His disciples take, eat: this is my body when He broke the bread ... then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to the disciples and told them drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for all ... the many are those who eat and drink. Those who refuse to eat the drink will have no Advocate when they stand before the judgment seat:

1 John 2:

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.





:rolleyes: ... it is not our "own consciousness" which makes known righteousness to us. It is God Who imputes righteousness ... and God imputes righteousness when we believe ... not before ... not after ... but when

On the cross, Jesus took our sin upon Himself and purchased our salvation. We have “been justified by his blood” (Romans 5:9), and part of that justification is an imputation of His own righteousness. Paul puts it this way: “For our sake [God] made [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus is righteous by virtue of His very nature—He is the Son of God. By God’s grace, “through faith in Jesus Christ,” that righteousness is given “to all who believe” (Romans 3:22). That’s imputation: the giving of Christ’s righteousness to sinners.​





The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the dead even if no one believed:

Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.





:rolleyes: ... ripping a verse from it's context does not change the verse to your stated erroneous belief.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Click to expand...
You continue in your unbelief.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,367
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,367
Gods Elect are Justified by Him !

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Understand something, the very mere fact that one is Gods Elect, apart from any other consideration, it means that one is Justified from all condemnation, any charges, none can be laid to their charge, God wont do it !17
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#3,368
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#3,368
brightfame52 said:
the very mere fact that one is Gods Elect, apart from any other consideration, it means that one is Justified from all condemnation, any charges, none can be laid to their charge, God wont do it !
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: ... "Gods Elect" is the Lord Jesus Christ. When a person is born again ... at the point ... he or she is then "Justified".

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus ...
.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,369
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,369
reneweddaybyday said:
:rolleyes:... "Gods Elect" is the Lord Jesus Christ. When a person is born again ... at the point ... he or she is then "Justified".

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus ...
.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ isnt the only elect of God, His seed is also. By the simple fact one is Gods elect, before they are born, they are Gods elect and have no condemnation. Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus seed is in Him.
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#3,370
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
#3,370
brightfame52 said:
Jesus Christ isnt the only elect of God, His seed is also. By the simple fact one is Gods elect, before they are born, they are Gods elect and have no condemnation. Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus seed is in Him.
Click to expand...
So, are you saying this is unconditional, or conditioned on “not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit?”
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,371
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,371
Sipsey said:
So, are you saying this is unconditional, or conditioned on “not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit?”
Click to expand...
Being in Christ is unconditional, its something God does for some before the foundation of the world.

Walking after the Spirit is something they are made to do in time, yet they were in Christ before time.
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#3,372
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
#3,372
brightfame52 said:
Being in Christ is unconditional, its something God does for some before the foundation of the world.

Walking after the Spirit is something they are made to do in time, yet they were in Christ before time.
Click to expand...
Seems a rather confusing assertion. So, according to your thinking, man has no choice, they are forced to walk after the Spirit, whether they want to-or not.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,373
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,373
Sipsey said:
Seems a rather confusing assertion. So, according to your thinking, man has no choice, they are forced to walk after the Spirit, whether they want to-or not.
Click to expand...
You lost me, I have the slightest idea of what you talking about. Maybe you need to read my posts throughout this thread to understand what I believe friend about this subject of Justification.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,374
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,374
renewed

"Gods Elect" is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Exactly and the entire election of Grace, all the Elect Family of God, Christs Body is Chosen in His Election ! They are the chosen generation 1 Pet 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Corresponding to Him being Chosen 1 Pet 2:4

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#3,375
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#3,375
brightfame52 said:
reneweddaybyday said:
"Gods Elect" is the Lord Jesus Christ. When a person is born again ... at the point ... he or she is then "Justified".
Click to expand...
reneweddaybyday said:
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus ...
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ isnt the only elect of God
Click to expand...
Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect of God.




brightfame52 said:
one is Gods elect, before they are born
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: ... the only One Who was "elect, before [He] was born" is the Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is the Elect of God ...




brightfame52 said:
Rom 8:1
Click to expand...
brightfame52 said:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus
Click to expand...

No one is in Christ Jesus until he or she is born again.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#3,376
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#3,376
brightfame52 said:
reneweddaybyday said:
"Gods Elect" is the Lord Jesus Christ. When a person is born again ... at the point ... he or she is then "Justified".

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus ...
Click to expand...
1 Pet 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
Click to expand...
read the verse in context, brightfame52:

1 Peter 2:7-9 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

Do you believe, brightfame52??? It appears to me you never have believed since, as you stated in Post 1804, you "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".
.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,377
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,377
reneweddaybyday said:
Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect of God.





:rolleyes: ... the only One Who was "elect, before [He] was born" is the Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is the Elect of God ...





No one is in Christ Jesus until he or she is born again.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Click to expand...
Already refuted all this nonsense, numerous times.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,378
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,378
reneweddaybyday said:
read the verse in context, brightfame52:

1 Peter 2:7-9 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

Do you believe, brightfame52??? It appears to me you never have believed since, as you stated in Post 1804, you "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".
.
Click to expand...
They were a chose generation before they came into the world, so yes they believe, they were chosen to believe.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#3,380
Nov 21, 2020
6,270
550
113
#3,380
reneweddaybyday said:
:rolleyes: ... your statement here




contradicts your statement here:


.
Click to expand...
Again they were of a chosen generation before they believe, they were chosen in Christ as His seed/generation before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4. So it's predetermined they will believe in time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.