problem related to praying in tongues

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

Paul writes, “If I speak with the tongue of men (oops, mankind)…”, so that tells us that it is not some unintelligible gibberish. 🙂 🙂

 

[posthuman]

The strongest argument for the cessation of gifts offers I Cor 13:10 as prooftext as support, "but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away." However, two verses later, Paul the writer of 1 Cor, who had seen and heard Jesus speak to him, says, "Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." and the next verse, "And now, these three remain, faith, hope, love.." a different for of "now" is used, "nuni" where "arti" is used in the previous verse. Where arti indicates the immediate present, nuni indicates a present state distinct from what was before. Therefore, a valid assertion cannot be derived that faith hope, and love did away with the gifts.

What is "the perfect" ?

Is it the complete scripture?

 

[posthuman]

Are you sure that that is how the gift of SUPERNATURALLY speaking in a foreign language works? Here is what we actually see: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue [LANGUAGE], wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues [LANGUAGES] the wonderful works of God.
(Acts 2:7-11).

Why did Paul insist that there be an interpreter for anyone attempting to speak a foreign language supernaturally? Because a strange language needs to be interpreted to make sense.

It seems the miracle was in the hearing, not the speaking - because they spoke once but a dozen people heard it in their own tongues

 

[Flannery]

When I was in the USAF, I often witnessed to Muslims that way.

I believe you. I half imagine that God hears the Cincinatti Bangles in the same language as that.

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

What is "the perfect" ?

Is it the complete scripture?

Ephesians 4:13-15
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

I glad that we all have come into the unity of the faith and have intimate knowledge and we’re come into the fullness of Christ, NO, we are more fractured as in on other time, many in the Church (oops, Christendom) are shallow, immature and nominal Christian’s, NO, we still need every gift). 🙂

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

It seems the miracle was in the hearing, not the speaking - because they spoke once but a dozen people heard it in their own tongues

Nope, they spoke in the tongue of where these foreigner (the Diaspora) was from, your premise is false, may I say. 🙂

 

[ThewindBlows]

Ephesians 4:13-15
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

I glad that we all have come into the unity of the faith and have intimate knowledge and we’re come into the fullness of Christ, NO, we are more fractured as in on other time, many in the Church (oops, Christendom) are shallow, immature and nominal Christian’s, NO, we still need every gift). 🙂

Christians are fine, here look 2 Peter 1:4 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 5 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

More along these lines

2 Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

 

[VARob]

I say ----------------------------Worth Repeating -------Not everyone is bestowed of this gift

VARob-said ------ false ---

I say ---------if all Christians get this gift why aren't all speaking in tongues ?????????????------

Basically, fear or ignorance.

Your Quote here -------Every Christian has the gift of the Holy Spirit, and can manifest that gift.

This quote you make is so FALSE -----No human can manifest speaking in tongues ------this comes straight from the Holy Spirit within ----------

Every human who is born again of the gift of the Holy Spirit can manifest speaking in tongues. The Holy Spirit gives them the ability, it's up to them whether they do it or not.

OH and by the way Just because ONE Calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit ------this word Christian today is so abused and misused ----Many of People who use this word ----Are NOT TRUE Christians ------

Agreed. But if a person is born again, they are a Christian.

Now
Show the scripture------ that Paul says by revelations he wants all Christians to speak in tongues ----

I know scripture pretty good and no where have I come across this Scripture ------that says by Revelation he wants all Christians to speak in tongues -----so give the scripture that says this -----

1 Cor 14:5 ESV Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

...all scripture is by revelation, by the way.

Now -----you need to know the difference between having the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and being Filled with the Holy Spirit -----these are 2 different things

No, they're the same thing.

The 9 Gifts

They aren't gifts, they are manifestations.

listed are manifested by the infilling of the Holy Spirit -----which not every true Christian has the infilling of the Holy Spirit ------they have the indwelling only

Every true Christian is born again. They have the "infilling" of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The infilling of the Holy Spirit comes from you growing in Maturity in your Faith and trust walk with Christ ---

Cornelius and his family were brand new Christians, and they immediately spoke in tongues.

giving yourself completely over to the Holy Spirit so He directs every aspect of your life --

From Got Questions ----
To be filled with the Spirit implies freedom for Him to occupy every part of our lives, guiding and controlling us. Then His power can be exerted through us so that what we do is fruitful to God.

The gift of the Holy spirit will not control you.

The filling of the Spirit does not apply to outward acts alone; it also applies to the innermost thoughts and motives of our actions. Psalm 19:14 says, "May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer."

So you cannot just manifest tongues ------when you become a Born Again person -----

Sure you can. Brand spanking new Christians can speak in tongues. Cp. Cornelius.

Paul actually said this

Ephesians 5:18
Amplified Bible
Do not get drunk with wine, for that is wickedness (corruption, stupidity), but be filled with the [Holy] Spirit and constantly guided by Him.

The Amplified Bible adds words that are not in the Bible.

This word filled in Greek means ------

Strong's Concordance
pléroó: to make full, to complete

Cognate: 4137 plēróō (from plērēs, "be full," see 4130 /plḗthō) – properly, fill to individual capacity,

..ok

 

[VARob]

No gift can be manifested unless the Spirit gives utterance or empowerment to do so. Anything beyond this is faking & abusing the gifts.

You received the empowerment when you got born again. WHENEVER a person speaks in tongues it is the Spirit giving the utterance.

 

[VARob]

The one baptism is the water baptism that Jesus commanded us to do.... the spiritual baptism is just that... an immersion into the Spirit of God.

Which is it? Is the "one baptism" water baptism or spirit baptism?

 

[VARob]

There is also a difference in the prayer language that is for every believe who is baptized in the Spirit and the gift of tongues which is a supernatural message from God.

Speaking in tongues is not a "supernatural message from God." When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2).

The "prayer language" and speaking in tongues are the same. When tongues are spoken in public, the person must also interpret (1 Cor 14:5, 13).

 

[VARob]

It seems the miracle was in the hearing, not the speaking - because they spoke once but a dozen people heard it in their own tongues

The "miracle" was in the speaking. Don't forget there were 12 apostles speaking...

 

[Cameron143]

Nope, they spoke in the tongue of where these foreigner (the Diaspora) was from, your premise is false, may I say. 🙂

The hearers were from all over the place. And the text says they each heard in their own language. They were able to hear and understand, see and perceive.
It's interesting that at the tower of Babel, the language was confused; at Pentecost, it was made understandable.

 

[Inquisitor]

There's only one real problem with tongues as it's practiced today. The gift of tongues is the gift of speaking in unknown human languages. People today don't speak unknown human languages but made up gibberish. No gift required, anyone can do it. It's foreign to the true gift of tongues. The fact that it's been accepted by so many, and continues, is a sad testament to the level of ignorance in the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak with the tongues of mankind and of angels...

The tongues of angels?

I don't think angels speak Greek or Hebrew.

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

Their the same, “In the Spirit is the reality and the actual baptism.”

The Water baptism is a testimony and a sign of what has already happened. The Spirit, at this point, is in you already. 🙂

 

[Inquisitor]

Yup.. biblical tongues is an entirely different kettle of fish to what many practice today.

Im a cessationist, but if someone is going to practice tongues they should at least go according to the biblical practice.

Pagan religions have gibberish tongues.. and many believers unconsciously practice a very similar thing .

Acts 2... They are known languages to the hearers..

When Paul writes of speaking in the tongues of men and angels.. it's hyperbole.. exaggeration to make a point about tongues being inferior to the gifts of faith hope and love.

He writes of having faith to move a mountain..but that is hyperbole.. figurative.. therefore so is speaking in the tongues of angels.

Then you go to 1co 12 and see the guidelines for practicing tongues.. and who abides by them? I know none who do.

Does a cessationist believe that gifts of knowledge, teaching, giving, have ceased.

Have all the ministries of the Holy Spirit ceased?

Administration, healing, helping, teaching, and obviously evangelism?

I think what you believe may be incorrect, unworkable.

 

[VARob]

Pagan religions have gibberish tongues..

Christianity has speaking in tongues, a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

The hearers were from all over the place. And the text says they each heard in their own language. They were able to hear and understand, see and perceive.
It's interesting that at the tower of Babel, the language was confused; at Pentecost, it was made understandable.

If I spoke in English could you know what I said? Those that were in the Upper Room spoke by the Holy Ghost.

The hearers were from all over the place. And the text says they each heard in their own language. They were able to hear and understand, see and perceive.
It's interesting that at the tower of Babel, the language was confused; at Pentecost, it was made understandable.

How long must I bear with you, babes in Christ!

The speaker spoke a dialect they didn’t understand, the hearers ear them through the air waves what the speakers said. 🙂

 

[posthuman]

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak with the tongues of mankind and of angels...

The tongues of angels?

I don't think angels speak Greek or Hebrew.

Hebrew is debatable. Greek, no.

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

Speaking in tongues is not a "supernatural message from God." When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2).

The "prayer language" and speaking in tongues are the same. When tongues are spoken in public, the person must also interpret (1 Cor 14:5, 13).

Actually, I had a little quiet chuckle about this, you latest post.

NO, there not the same!

We need building up in our faith daily, so the prayer language is given us to use at anytime, it is an utterance given by the Spirit to use whenever and wherever, but I suggest one do so under their breath when in public. The gift of tongues is for where two or three are gathered in his name, I would not believe it if it was used in at work, at the dentist, nor anywhere that they have not gathered in his name. 🙂

Jude 20
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,