The tribulation

[Webers.Home]

.
● Rev 20:1-2 . . And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key
of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the
dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a
thousand years

● Rev 20:7-9 . . And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be
loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in
the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to
battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on
the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and
the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured
them.

The Old Testament describes the quality of the millennium as an era of
unparalleled justice, equity, peace, and prosperity. I really have to wonder
exactly what it is about Messiah's administration that will dissatisfy the
Gogites and Magogites enough to try and overthrow him. And how will the
Devil manage to persuade them it's even possible?

Back in my days as a kid, there was a saying going around that went like
this: "That man is so convincing he could sell refrigerators to the Eskimos".
Well; I would be very interested to know how the Devil is going to pull off
something very similar to that in his campaign to convince folks they'd be
better off without Christ at the helm.

But you know, what it really all boils down to is control. There are folks who
just simply don't care to be governed by the likes of God; as it says in the
2nd Psalm:

"Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the
earth take their stand, and the rulers gather together against The Lord and
against his Anointed one. Let us break their chains-- they say --and throw
off their fetters."
_

 

[GaryA]

Actually the first resurrection is in THREE PHASES (just like a Hebrew harvest). Which means that your concept is incorrect.

PHASE I -- Christ the First Fruits (AD 30)
PHASE II -- The resurrection of all the saints who have passed on. (This is at the coming of Christ for the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church). (STILL FUTURE)
PHASE III -- The Tribulation Saints who were beheaded. This is just prior to the Millennium. (While this is where "the first resurrection" is mention, we need to go back to 1 Corinthians 15 for the full picture). (AFTER THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST)

1 CORINTHIANS 15: THE PROGRESSION OF THE "FIRST RESURRECTION"
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept...
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Actually, this is just something pre-trib folks have come up with to "get around" what @iamsoandso said in post #157.

~ there is no "progression"; there are no "phases"

~ the resurrection of Christ is its own distinct resurrection

~ the 'First Resurrection' is as described in Revelation 20 - it is a single event

You are trying to merge three separate things - 'harvest', 'resurrection', and 'fruits' - each having its own relevance - but that should not be made into some kind of hodgepodge in an attempt to twist certain verses/passages of scripture around the 'pre-trib' view.

Christ is not part of any 'harvest'; however, He is the 'firstfruits' of those [that shall be] 'made alive' - the first glorified. { This is talking about 'spiritual' resurrection and not [just] 'physical' resurrection. Lazarus was resurrected ('physical') - but not glorified ('spiritual'). } Then (afterward) - [all of] 'they that are Christ's at his coming'. (His Second Coming)

You seem to be trying to associate verses 24 & 25 (that you added above) in a way that does not [directly] fit any of this - not even your 'phases' list. What is that all about?

Also - there is nothing whatsoever in 1 Corinthians 15 that has anything to do with any 'Antichrist'.

You are making assumptions about - and trying to [directly] associate - things in ways that are not actually represented in scripture.

"Sorry brother - your concept is incorrect."

 

[iamsoandso]

Actually, this is just something pre-trib folks have come up with to "get around" what @iamsoandso said in post #157.

~ there is no "progression"; there are no "phases"

~ the resurrection of Christ is its own distinct resurrection

~ the 'First Resurrection' is as described in Revelation 20 - it is a single event

You are trying to merge three separate things - 'harvest', 'resurrection', and 'fruits' - each having its own relevance - but that should not be made into some kind of hodgepodge in an attempt to twist certain verses/passages of scripture around the 'pre-trib' view.

Christ is not part of any 'harvest'; however, He is the 'firstfruits' of those [that shall be] 'made alive' - the first glorified. { This is talking about 'spiritual' resurrection and not [just] 'physical' resurrection. Lazarus was resurrected ('physical') - but not glorified ('spiritual'). } Then (afterward) - [all of] 'they that are Christ's at his coming'. (His Second Coming)

You seem to be trying to associate verses 24 & 25 (that you added above) in a way that does not [directly] fit any of this - not even your 'phases' list. What is that all about?

Also - there is nothing whatsoever in 1 Corinthians 15 that has anything to do with any 'Antichrist'.

You are making assumptions about - and trying to [directly] associate - things in ways that are not actually represented in scripture.

"Sorry brother - your concept is incorrect."

Yea that's why I put in bold lettering the word lived in post #160,,, in the first resurrection they live,their alive(breath of life) during the mill. ... The word is from Revelation 20:4 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/20-4.htm it means there alive https://biblehub.com/greek/2198.htm

 

[Magenta]

I think the "mark" of a man, or the antichrist is the mind that rejects Christ as Lord.

I agree .

 

[iamsoandso]

Here's the puzzle how does John write 1John,2 3 ect. and seemingly fully understand the antichrist but then need the angel to explain it to him in Revelation 17:7 as if he didn't understand it? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-7.htm

 

[Mem]

Here's the puzzle how does John write 1John,2 3 ect. and seemingly fully understand the antichrist but then need the angel to explain it to him in Revelation 17:7 as if he didn't understand it? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-7.htm

Perhaps John marvels at the relationship between the woman and the beast, which might otherwise seem to be an odd pairing. For example, one would think that (false) religion and secularism (which is what I consider humanism) would work against each other, but they are of one purpose in warring against a common enemy, the one true ruler of all which they covet to rule. Afterall, the prophecy concludes with the beast hating the woman.
The ten crowns, and "the was, and is not, and is still to come," brings to mind Haman, and his ten sons, who hated Mordecai (which means "follower of Marduk"-which is a Babylonian god-and Mordecai is explained to be a companion of Zerubbabel...). There seems to be a lot of "coincidental" connections there, imo.

 

[iamsoandso]

Perhaps John marvels at the relationship between the woman and the beast, which might otherwise seem to be an odd pairing. For example, one would think that (false) religion and secularism (which is what I consider humanism) would work against each other, but they are of one purpose in warring against a common enemy, the one true ruler of all which they covet to rule. Afterall, the prophecy concludes with the beast hating the woman.
The ten crowns, and "the was, and is not, and is still to come," brings to mind Haman, and his ten sons, who hated Mordecai (which means "follower of Marduk"-which is a Babylonian god-and Mordecai is explained to be a companion of Zerubbabel...). There seems to be a lot of "coincidental" connections there, imo.

In the same explanation in Revelation 17:12 those ten had received "no kingdom as yet",, https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm yet again in 1 John 4:3 that spirit of antichrist is described by John as "now in the world" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/4-3.htm and so it is as if putting the cart before the horse to go from it being in the world to it not being in existence in the angels explanation to John in Revelation 17. It seems that the term antichrist and mark of the beast are by many used as synonyms one of the other but seem to actually be two different things in time in Scripture. John seems to explain the spirit of antichrist to be in existence in his time yet the angel explains several of these beast heads,ten horns ect. to be coming afterwards in time.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● Rev 20:11 . .Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on
it.

Him seated on the throne is of course Christ because God delegated His son
to handle Heaven's legal affairs.

● John 5:22-23 . . The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment
to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

● Acts 17:31 . . God has set a day when He will judge the world with justice
by the man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by
raising him from the dead.

Christ's crucifixion factors into justice for believers so that they need not fear
"the man" especially since it was himself who endured the cross for their benefit.

● Rom 8:34-35 . . Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus who died? More
than that: who was raised to life, is at the right hand of God, and is also
interceding for us.

So then; were believers to stand before the great white throne, Jesus would
be conflicted because his obligation to them in a court of law is defense
rather than prosecution. Well; if he steps down to defend, then who's to
preside on the bench? No; I think we may safely assume that if believers
come to that event at all, they will come as spectators rather than
defendants.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
_

 

[Omegatime]

I agree .

Then how would this play out??--

so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

 

[Magenta]

Then how would this play out??--

so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

We see it being set up now... with wide-spreading censorship of religious
views, and those that uphold morals that go against the grain of wokism.

May seem random and perhaps it is, but have you ever listened to Jordan Peterson?

 

[Omegatime]

We see it being set up now... with wide-spreading censorship of religious
views, and those that uphold morals that go against the grain of wokism.

May seem random and perhaps it is, but have you ever listened to Jordan Peterson?

For millions, maybe a billion people to buy or sell it would have to identify you by a physical mark IMO This is a tme when the world is in turmoil.

 

[Magenta]

For millions, maybe a billion people to buy or sell it would have to identify you by a physical mark IMO This is a tme when the world is in turmoil.

Passports and bank cards etc are not a physical mark, just a worldly system that help control how
things are done and also dictate what you must do in order to avail yourself of the things being offered.

 

[Omegatime]

When 1/4 and 1/3 of the world passes away in two judgements, paper, passports, and cell phones wont mean much

 

[Magenta]

When 1/4 and 1/3 of the world passes away in two judgements, paper, passports, and cell phones wont mean much

So much for worldly systems, eh?

 

[cv5]

For millions, maybe a billion people to buy or sell it would have to identify you by a physical mark IMO This is a tme when the world is in turmoil.

It is definitely some kind of identifiable and verifiable high tech ID tag of sorts. Probably related to transhumanism/brain chipping et al and DNA alteration that leads to a total destruction of free will. We already have plenty of similar methodologies today.

The thing is, the physical make comes AFTER the pledge and commitment to the beast (repudiating the True God in finality), which comes from the HEART. So ultimately it is both spiritual and physical.

The free will of man to CHOOSE (Him and therefore salvation) is THE fundamental attribute of man that God created to make us in His image. The GREATEST EVIL is for Satan to steal this gift. And this is the great evil that demands God's final judgement in the tribulation.

Rev 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is the mini-me false prophet revealing their plans clear as day....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1636368081584029699

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617006377682993152

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612829979657764869

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644522803872296960

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613082994784305152

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628659580128440322

 

[cv5]

For millions, maybe a billion people to buy or sell it would have to identify you by a physical mark IMO This is a tme when the world is in turmoil.

Yet more predictive programming bro. Common as dirt and everywhere in the media from cartoons to movies to album covers.....

You need to watch to the end.....

 

[cv5]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628659580128440322

 

[cv5]

"Club of Rome" huh....??? Do tell Mr. Schwab.
Tinfoil hats all around!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1654372746208464899

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● Rev 20:13 . .The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and
Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged
according to what he had done.

Death and Hades are paired together in Rev 6:8 where death consists of
folks losing their lives by reason of war, starvation, fatal encounters with
wild things, plus other causes, e.g. accidents and common ailments, e.g.
cancer, stroke, heart attack, pneumonia, kidney failure, and diabetes, etc.

Hades is translated from a Hellenistic word for the afterlife where everybody
goes when they pass away regardless of age, race, gender and/or religious
preference: even Jesus spent some time there. (Ps 16:8-10, Acts 7:25-31)

In other words: folks in Hades are there in a non physical form for now but
later will be reunited with their bodies to face justice at the great white
throne event. This of course would include the folks whose bodies were
claimed by water, viz: the sea.

How many folks are we talking about? I don't really know because the
numbers will include everyone all the way back to Cain; and that was a
pretty long time ago. But just for fun; we'll say ten million.

Well, if each individual's judgment takes only thirty minutes each; we're
looking at 570+ years of time in court to complete; and that's for only
ten million defendants. I'm guessing there will be considerably more people
than that seeing as Christ said many are called but few are chosen. In other
words: the majority.
_

 

[Rondonmon]

lol, no their not,, it states in Rev 20:4 that they lived and reign with Christ during the Thousand years and that the second death has no part with them. So no not during but instead,,before the thousand years...

I have been called to Preach AND specifically unto Prophecy for 38 plus years, I see this all the time, the scripture as written confuses you because it is written in Old English(e) and translated from Greek to boot and they had different writing styles 2000 years ago. So, I will go line by line and explain it.

So, Jesus has returned, see Rev. 19, Rev. 16 is the real return Rev. 19 is a Parenthetical Citation chapter but its the exact same event, so he returns in Rev. 19, now we see the Judgment that happens during Jesus' 1000 year reign on earth. It can and does happen on THAT VERY DAY he shows up, thus its still 1000 years

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (Thus we know from this point on Jesus reigns in his 1000 year reign)

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they(the Church) sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them(Church): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they (ONLY THOSE from the 70th Week who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.(Not ALL Christians)

5 But the rest of the dead(The Wicked of all Humans who ever lived) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (This is the first Resurrection is referring to all of the Righteous in Christ Jesus raised up before the 2nd Resurrection after Jesus' 1000 year reign, be the the Pre Trib Rapture, or those Martyrs of the 70th week who are THE ONLY ONES who live on this earth, with Glorious Bodies, for Jesus' 1000 year reign, thus that means the Pre Trib Raptured crew do NOT LIVE on earth with Jesus fir the 1000 year reign).

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:( All those raised before the 2nd Resurrection, be it Pre Trib or Post Jesus; 2nd Coming, there are only TWO RESURRECTIONS, the Resurrection of the Living/Righteous in Christ ands the Resurrection of the Dead/Wicked) on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Why are they Judged on WORKS? They have to be, they REFUSED the Free Gift Jesus offered unto them, his blood would have set the free from the Law, instead they chose to trust in their own works, and they will be found GUILTY, Amen.)

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

ONLY THOSE Martyred during the 70th week LIVE and REIGN with Jes7s fir his 1000 year reign on earth.