What is wrong is that some people read the scripture from a biased, intelectual point of view. You make the Bible say almost anything if you are clever enough. We have the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth. Scripture is essential because we are easily deceived by false teaching and by our own understanding. The Holy Spirit will lead us if we love truth. Even then He will not contradict the written word of God.
Baptism, the simple version.
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Acts 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.
Then Peter said, "Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
The new believers wanted to be baptised. That is a world apart from saying that baptism saves. I've never said that baptism does not matter. I do say that it is not essential to the initial born again experience. Those who require baptism for salvation add to God's requirements. Personally, that's not something I'm game to do.
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.
Then Peter said, "Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
The new believers wanted to be baptised. That is a world apart from saying that baptism saves. I've never said that baptism does not matter. I do say that it is not essential to the initial born again experience. Those who require baptism for salvation add to God's requirements. Personally, that's not something I'm game to do.
L
That is a made up dichonomy to suit a certain theology.
You cant support it via scripture.
How do you live with yourself?
Thats a serious twist on the text.
You still cant ignor that Peter said.
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2:38-39 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/act.2.38-39.NKJV
Repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Thats pretty cut and dry anyone who can read can understand that.
You cant support it via scripture.
How do you live with yourself?
Thats a serious twist on the text.
You still cant ignor that Peter said.
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2:38-39 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/act.2.38-39.NKJV
Repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Thats pretty cut and dry anyone who can read can understand that.
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As I said, you will not even consider the possibility that you might be off base somewhat. you made up your mind decades ago.
Your "proof" scripture has been explained over and over, and like you, I don't have the inclination to try to explain it to deaf ears again.
You are taking one or two scriptures (cherry-picking) to prove your pre-conceived notion, and you're satisfied.
.... and that is fine. I have no problem with you believing what you do, as each of us has to answer for our own beliefs.
I don't think that any of us have "all" the answers.... but in our search for the answers, we need to remember to approach it with an open mind, and rely on the guidance of the Spirit to lead us to truth.... and I believe that arriving at a decision requires the application of ALL scripture, not just the ones that agree with my belief...
in the end, we are still brothers, and Jesus is still our Lord and savior....
Your "proof" scripture has been explained over and over, and like you, I don't have the inclination to try to explain it to deaf ears again.
You are taking one or two scriptures (cherry-picking) to prove your pre-conceived notion, and you're satisfied.
.... and that is fine. I have no problem with you believing what you do, as each of us has to answer for our own beliefs.
I don't think that any of us have "all" the answers.... but in our search for the answers, we need to remember to approach it with an open mind, and rely on the guidance of the Spirit to lead us to truth.... and I believe that arriving at a decision requires the application of ALL scripture, not just the ones that agree with my belief...
in the end, we are still brothers, and Jesus is still our Lord and savior....
Correct. Water does not wash away sins. But the Bible is very clear that repentance is for the remission of sins. Jesus said: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47). Therefore Peter said: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).
So what is the the purpose of water baptism? It is primarily to tell every witness to that baptism that this believer has died to his old sinful life and been raised with Christ to "walk in newness of life" (see Romans 6). But baptism has many other spiritual results, not least of which is that it is the first step of obedience to the Lord and also the first step in the sanctification of the believer. The apostles took Christ's commandment to baptize believers very seriously. They made sure there was little or no delay between conversion and baptism. We see this throughout the book of Acts.
Today we have many false teachers and certain denominations teaching (a) baptismal regeneration or (b) baptism for the remission of sins. Those are false teaching which have led many people to mistakenly believe that water has some kind of supernatural power.
John 3:5 has been misinterpreted to suggest that the New Birth is connected to water baptism. As a matter of fact "water" is a metaphor for the Word of God, which does have cleansing power when sinners are converted through the Gospel. God called it "clean water", Christ said that His apostles were cleansed by the Word which He had spoken, and Paul said that God would sanctify and cleanse the Church by the "washing of water by the Word".
So what is the the purpose of water baptism? It is primarily to tell every witness to that baptism that this believer has died to his old sinful life and been raised with Christ to "walk in newness of life" (see Romans 6). But baptism has many other spiritual results, not least of which is that it is the first step of obedience to the Lord and also the first step in the sanctification of the believer. The apostles took Christ's commandment to baptize believers very seriously. They made sure there was little or no delay between conversion and baptism. We see this throughout the book of Acts.
Today we have many false teachers and certain denominations teaching (a) baptismal regeneration or (b) baptism for the remission of sins. Those are false teaching which have led many people to mistakenly believe that water has some kind of supernatural power.
John 3:5 has been misinterpreted to suggest that the New Birth is connected to water baptism. As a matter of fact "water" is a metaphor for the Word of God, which does have cleansing power when sinners are converted through the Gospel. God called it "clean water", Christ said that His apostles were cleansed by the Word which He had spoken, and Paul said that God would sanctify and cleanse the Church by the "washing of water by the Word".
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Baptism is a germane part of the salvation process. You're not saved until you're baptized. And its NOT a "to tell every witness-----" anything. Read the account of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. He was preached the gospel of Christ by Philip which obviously included the need for baptism, as evidenced by his question to Philip about water and baptism; he believed, confessed his belief, and was immediately baptized. Who was there? Just him and Philip in the middle of nowhere! Baptism is for a definitive purpose but for sure it's not to proclaim anything to anyone;
that's man made-up nonsense.
that's man made-up nonsense.
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lol... If you think the phrase "Apollos watered" means that he water baptized people, I don't know what to say. The analogy is growing crops. Paul planted, Apollos watered, God gives the increase. IOW, both Paul and Apollos taught people the gospel, nurtured and pastored them to help them grow.
1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
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Sure, and I am conscious that arguing is not profitable. You will find that many disagree with your position. Your accusation of cherry picking is unjustified. Acts 10:44 is as plain as day. The gospel was preached, the gentiles believed, were filled with the Spirit and then got baptised. The Holy Spirit will not dwell in an unclean vessel. The hearers were saved before they were baptised.
Acts 10:
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.
39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree, 40God raised Him up on the third day and caused Him to be seen— 41not by all the people, but by the witnesses God had chosen beforehand, by us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”
Nothing about baptism there....
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.
Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
Baptism after salvation, not in order to be saved. What is so hard to understand about that?
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.
39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree, 40God raised Him up on the third day and caused Him to be seen— 41not by all the people, but by the witnesses God had chosen beforehand, by us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”
Nothing about baptism there....
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.
Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
Baptism after salvation, not in order to be saved. What is so hard to understand about that?
Not a thing, when it ( water ) was "still in effect" during God's
Transition period from Law Over To Grace!
Thus, When Grace Is in Full effect, He Has Only ONE Baptism!!
Transition period from Law Over To Grace!
Thus, When Grace Is in Full effect, He Has Only ONE Baptism!!
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I don't think we are arguing... I thought we were discussing.
The scripture you reference was not a descriptive lesson/example on baptism... the baptism was "assumed" to be required by all the Jewish believers. What that scripture is about is teaching the Jewish Christians that Gentiles were accepted by God.... they received the Holy Spirit to PROVE to the Jewish believers that God approved of them.. and the natural FIRST thing to do was to baptize them..
The Jewish believers knew that baptism was a part of being saved..... they simply didn't believe that Gentiles could be saved. God showed them they were acceptable by giving them the Spirit..... then it was "what hinders them from being baptized?" The answer, of course... "nothing".
This was a one-time event to prove to the Jewish believers that Gentiles were accepted by God....
You are correct, though..... it IS plain as day.
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [a]message. 45 All the [b]circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
The scripture you reference was not a descriptive lesson/example on baptism... the baptism was "assumed" to be required by all the Jewish believers. What that scripture is about is teaching the Jewish Christians that Gentiles were accepted by God.... they received the Holy Spirit to PROVE to the Jewish believers that God approved of them.. and the natural FIRST thing to do was to baptize them..
The Jewish believers knew that baptism was a part of being saved..... they simply didn't believe that Gentiles could be saved. God showed them they were acceptable by giving them the Spirit..... then it was "what hinders them from being baptized?" The answer, of course... "nothing".
This was a one-time event to prove to the Jewish believers that Gentiles were accepted by God....
You are correct, though..... it IS plain as day.
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [a]message. 45 All the [b]circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Do you think Paul was planting flowers, Apollos was watering them, and God made them grow, giving them increase???
You are the one that's making dumb, laughable comments!
1 Cor 3:5-9
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
You are the one that's making dumb, laughable comments!
1 Cor 3:5-9
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.