Baptism, the simple version.
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Water does not remove sin, neither does repentance. The death and shed blood of Christ is full payment for sin. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission.
Baptism by water is not the same as baptism into Christ. The Holy Spirit puts us into Christ. Water baptism is the outward response to what God does for us. Not everyone who is saved knows the law. It is only necessary that the person accepts that they are a sinner and fall short of God's glory. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, who convicts of sin.
Those who do not have the law (the majority of humanity) live by conscience. That is sufficient. When confronted, any honest person will admit that they've done something they know to be wrong. That's enough.
Nothing that we do or say can remove sin. It's not our repentance, sorrow, regret or determination to do better next time. We are saved by what Jesus has done, not by what we do. When we believe and receive, we are saved (John 1:12).
Baptism by water is not the same as baptism into Christ. The Holy Spirit puts us into Christ. Water baptism is the outward response to what God does for us. Not everyone who is saved knows the law. It is only necessary that the person accepts that they are a sinner and fall short of God's glory. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, who convicts of sin.
Those who do not have the law (the majority of humanity) live by conscience. That is sufficient. When confronted, any honest person will admit that they've done something they know to be wrong. That's enough.
Nothing that we do or say can remove sin. It's not our repentance, sorrow, regret or determination to do better next time. We are saved by what Jesus has done, not by what we do. When we believe and receive, we are saved (John 1:12).
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You miss the point entirely. Baptism saves no one. A dry sinner immersed in water will arise a wet sinner. I was in the Navy when I was born again. I knew nothing about baptism but I sure knew that I was a different person. I had no opportunity even if I knew about baptism. The Vietnam war was in progress at the time. If I'd died before I was baptised, I know that I would have met Jesus as my saviour, not my judge.
The word is crystal clear that we are saved on the basis of the finished work of Christ on the cross, His death, burial and resurrection. We are saved by His grace, not by works. Add me to the list of those who flat out reject baptism as a requirement for salvation. I've explained what baptism is. We get baptised because we are saved, not in order to be saved.
The word is crystal clear that we are saved on the basis of the finished work of Christ on the cross, His death, burial and resurrection. We are saved by His grace, not by works. Add me to the list of those who flat out reject baptism as a requirement for salvation. I've explained what baptism is. We get baptised because we are saved, not in order to be saved.
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You must have a different bible.
Ephesians 2:4-9
"…But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.…
Ephesians 2:4-9
"…But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.…
You don't know what you're talking about and are contrary to scripture.
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation
Acts 2:38
(If you're still in sin, you're alienated from God)
"38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 22:16
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Peter 3:20-21
"20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
The above few scriptures contradict your statement and beliefs.
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation
Acts 2:38
(If you're still in sin, you're alienated from God)
"38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 22:16
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Peter 3:20-21
"20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
The above few scriptures contradict your statement and beliefs.
See my previous post #6 which applies here to you well. Finding a single scripture that justifies your position while ignoring all the others that don't because they add more requirements, is cherrypicking and makes no sense and would result in scripture conflicting with scripture which is not possible
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Scripture does not contradict itself. When scripture explicitly explains a certain thing like baptism or anything really. If you use other passages of scripture to nullify what is written you are creating a contradiction. When you should rather harmonize those passages.
So when Peter says get up be baptized washing away your sin. And you see else where that sin is forgiven by grace. Then one must conclude that baptism is not a work of man but a work of grace. Because one does not contradict the other and thereby nullify it. They must rather be harmonized. Or you make some scripture a lie. If any scripture is a lie then none of it is trust worthy.
So when Peter says get up be baptized washing away your sin. And you see else where that sin is forgiven by grace. Then one must conclude that baptism is not a work of man but a work of grace. Because one does not contradict the other and thereby nullify it. They must rather be harmonized. Or you make some scripture a lie. If any scripture is a lie then none of it is trust worthy.
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What good is Scripture?????????? How can it lead you to truth if no one can agree on it's meanings/interpretations??????
On Baptism and almost every subject on this board there is total disagreement! One poster says "my viewpoint is correct" and posts Scripture to prove it. Then another poster says "your viewpoint isn't correct" and posts Scripture to prove it's not correct. Something's wrong here!
If two people read and interpret Scripture and come up with opposite conclusions, then either one or both of them has to be plain wrong!!!!!!!!!! So, what's wrong with this picture???????
On Baptism and almost every subject on this board there is total disagreement! One poster says "my viewpoint is correct" and posts Scripture to prove it. Then another poster says "your viewpoint isn't correct" and posts Scripture to prove it's not correct. Something's wrong here!
If two people read and interpret Scripture and come up with opposite conclusions, then either one or both of them has to be plain wrong!!!!!!!!!! So, what's wrong with this picture???????
It was explained pretty well by @DJT_47 ..... you can NOT take one scripture (or two) and say "here is the final answer"..... otherwise the scriptures would contradict themselves. Clear-thinking logic would tell you that you must look at ALL the scriptures that tell you what saves you.... harmonize them together without throwing any of them out, and you will see a picture of what God expects....
Otherwise, we could take the scripture that says "baptism now saves us".... and say that's all we need. Or, the scripture that says "whoever calls on the name of the Lord is saved".... all you have to do is call on the name of Jesus. .. or, "your faith has saved you".... so all we need is faith.
ALL of those are required for the event of salvation. It's a free gift, in that we cannot earn it, we don't deserve it.... but there are responses God expects from us.... just like he expected the Jews to be circumcised to accept the gift of the old covenant.
It's not a "work" .... it's obedience. as Jesus said 19 Go [a]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you..."
Otherwise, we could take the scripture that says "baptism now saves us".... and say that's all we need. Or, the scripture that says "whoever calls on the name of the Lord is saved".... all you have to do is call on the name of Jesus. .. or, "your faith has saved you".... so all we need is faith.
ALL of those are required for the event of salvation. It's a free gift, in that we cannot earn it, we don't deserve it.... but there are responses God expects from us.... just like he expected the Jews to be circumcised to accept the gift of the old covenant.
It's not a "work" .... it's obedience. as Jesus said 19 Go [a]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you..."
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If obeying every commandment was the condition for salvation, not one person would be saved. Baptism follows salvation. Every believer should be baptised. I knew nothing of baptism when I was saved. When I learned about it, I was baptised. However, that was months after I was saved.
Yes, check out every scripture about salvation. I wish Christians would quit making conditions that God does not impose. That includes the false notion that people need to be baptised in order to be saved.
Yes, check out every scripture about salvation. I wish Christians would quit making conditions that God does not impose. That includes the false notion that people need to be baptised in order to be saved.
Yeah.... all those pesky scriptures.
If you are not even willing to read and try to harmonize all the "salvation" statements, then so be it. You can take one or two statements, and say "that's IT..... that's all there is to it"...... but you must be willing to ignore/throw away all the other scriptures that state otherwise.
Personally, I'm not willing to throw out scriptures I don't "like"...
If you are not even willing to read and try to harmonize all the "salvation" statements, then so be it. You can take one or two statements, and say "that's IT..... that's all there is to it"...... but you must be willing to ignore/throw away all the other scriptures that state otherwise.
Personally, I'm not willing to throw out scriptures I don't "like"...
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If you knew nothing of baptism and weren't baptized you weren't saved.
Read the account of the Ethiopian eunuch's conversion in Acts 8. He knew nothing about baptism nor Jesus! He was preached the gospel by Philip which obviously the subject of baptism as confirmed by the verbal exchange between him and Philip. He believed, confessed his belief, and was immediately baptized.
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation
The above one, simple, verse says it all and clearly refutes your claim and beliefs. The words "Belief" and "baptised" and tied together inextricably by the conjunction "and". Both are required to attain salvation. You weren't saved prior to baptism; ain't possible.
Read the account of the Ethiopian eunuch's conversion in Acts 8. He knew nothing about baptism nor Jesus! He was preached the gospel by Philip which obviously the subject of baptism as confirmed by the verbal exchange between him and Philip. He believed, confessed his belief, and was immediately baptized.
Mark 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation
The above one, simple, verse says it all and clearly refutes your claim and beliefs. The words "Belief" and "baptised" and tied together inextricably by the conjunction "and". Both are required to attain salvation. You weren't saved prior to baptism; ain't possible.
"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).
To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30). People, if you are in a position to be baptized, why reject the counsel of God? Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20).
I have no problem whatever harmonising the salvation scriptures. I settled these questions in my heart decades ago. If you think that you must be baptised in water to be forgiven, then you are wrong. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go over this subject.
However, this passage destroys the false argument of baptisimal regeneration:
Acts 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.
Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
If you imagine that the Holy Spirit is given to unbelievers, then you are wrong. The hearers were saved first, then baptised in water. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how it is.
However, this passage destroys the false argument of baptisimal regeneration:
Acts 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.
Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
If you imagine that the Holy Spirit is given to unbelievers, then you are wrong. The hearers were saved first, then baptised in water. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how it is.
