Works of the Law

[Nehemiah6]

just a another weak attempt to make Paul contradict Jesus.

Don't forget it is now Goliath vs David. And you know who was the winner.

 

[Ted01]

Why do you believe Paul taught, "Not by Works, but by Grace", when Jesus Christ didn't?
Why do you believe Pauls teachings on "Grace", are foundational teachings, when in the Gospel of Christ, Jesus never even said the word?

Its very important, especially in these days of globally excepted immorality, for all believers to discernibly understand why Paul taught it.

I think that Paul taught that because it's the Gospel message that Jesus established.

Jesus may have never expressly talked on Salvation by Grace, but that seems well implied that it's by God's grace that we are saved by believing on His son. (I can't think of a better word for it?)

 

[TMS]

According to the Author of salvation.....Does salvation come before obedience?
(John 14:23)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Provision has been made to save all but we need to accept by faith the gift.
Every case is judged by Jesus. Everyone must stand before the judgement seat and with Christ's righteousness we are saved without we are lost.

Love comes first. Without a love for Jesus our motive to obey would be wrong.

Love comes by spending time with Him.

Love does not make the law void.

 

[TMS]

Don't forget it is now Goliath vs David. And you know who was the winner.

Yes David wins ....
Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. 45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. 31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

David wins because He loved the ways and laws of God.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Why do you believe Paul taught, "Not by Works, but by Grace", when Jesus Christ didn't?
Why do you believe Pauls teachings on "Grace", are foundational teachings, when in the Gospel of Christ, Jesus never even said the word?

Its very important, especially in these days of globally excepted immorality, for all believers to discernibly understand why Paul taught it.

An important principle for interpreting the Bible: Never, ever argue from silence, that is, what it DOES NOT say.

 

[evyaniy]

everything changed when He took His last breath on the cross and commended His Spirit to His Father. He had at that moment fully obeyed the law in giving His life as a sacrifice to save us as the law required of Him. His obedience to the law in offering His life saved Him from death. It was not a foregone conclusion. He had to do the will of His Father to be raised from the dead. The law required Him to give His life to be fully obedient. He had not done that till He died. He trusted in His Father to keep His promise and raise Him to life again. He lived it and faced it as a Man. The law was His path to life.

That is why His prayers in the Psalms are so important because they reveal what He was experiencing as He accomplished our salvation and fulfilled the law.

The Gospel of Grace was not yet available till He had paid the price for sin.

 

[evyaniy]

why did He ask at least 16 times to be raised to life again in Psalm 119 because of His obedience to the law?

 

[wattie]

Why do you think Jesus mentioned Works to the seven churches if works are without value?
Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Yeah .. doing good works for Christ is the testimony of our lives to others.

But in regards to the seven churches..this is about churches.

That means ... An entire local assembly of believers being characterised by a particular kind of faith.. flaws included.

It's not about receiving eternal life.

The candlestick is the place of the Holy Spirit in a local assembly of believers ... So a wayward local church could lose the presence of the Holy Spirit.

This does not mean the individual in that church loses eternal life.

Holy Spirit 'in the midst' of an assembly is a different role to individual indwelling.

 

[Inquisitor]

Interesting..
So you're saying it's Gods fault if you break his commandments, since he didn't empower you so you can keep his commandments.

You need to confess your sin to receive forgiveness.

None are righteous.

The law grants the knowledge of sin, the law does not grant righteousness.

Everyone sins and anyone who claims otherwise is a liar.

 

[Inquisitor]

You have quoted from a corrupted bible version. Here is what Jesus actually said: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Your quote omitted "that is God" which was the most critical part of that quote. Also it is not "about the good" but "why callest thou me good?" BIG DIFFERENCE.

1. So firstly Jesus was telling this man INDIRECTLY that if he considered Christ to be good then he would need to acknowledge that Jesus is God. Which meant that he would have to put his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, not his own good works which God would regard as "filthy rags".

2. Secondly Jesus was telling this man INDIRECTLY that his claim to keeping the commandments was false, and even if he went that route he would need to keep them 100% perfectly to obtain eternal life. An impossibility for anyone and everyone since God sees them as "filthy rags" compared to His perfect righteousness, and no one can actually keep them 100%.

3. Thirdly -- and most people fail to see this -- Christ only mentioned the SIX commandments which pertain to relationships with others. But the first four commandments were not mentioned. Why? BECAUSE THIS MAN WAS BREAKING THEM DAILY BY WORSHIPING WEALTH MORE THAN GOD! That is exactly why he walked away when told to abandon his wealth.

4. Anyone who foolishly believes that salvation is via good works, or a combination of faith + works is just fooling himself and ignoring what is actually taught in Scripture.

Is every other Bible translation corrupt other than the KJV?

That is an immense claim to make, if that is the claim you are making?

I do not agree with point one, Jesus was the messiah. No one would have understood the deity of the Christ at that point in time.

In your third point you claimed, 'Christ only mentioned the SIX commandments'. Well that is not true. Jesus did not mention the tenth commandment. Loving others was not one of the ten commandments. Loving your parents is only for a long life.

 

[Inquisitor]

Interesting..
So you're saying it's Gods fault if you break his commandments, since he didn't empower you so you can keep his commandments.

I am saying your a sinner and you need to confess your transgressions.

We are powerless to save ourselves, salvation is a gift that Christ grants to those that believe.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is not of yourselves...(Ephesians 2:8)

I cannot blame God, because God has given us eternal life as a gift.

 

[pottersclay]

If this is true, why does God discipline those he loves when they sin?? Isn't disciple punishment??
(Hebrews 12:4-11)

No quite the opposite, correction for those he cares about out of love.
A good father corrects those he loves

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is every other Bible translation corrupt other than the KJV? That is an immense claim to make, if that is the claim you are making?

Yes I am making that claim and I have the evidence to back it up. But that is for another day and another time.

 

[evyaniy]

every Bible translation is a translation. is there one translation that even has His Name correct? today, we have the availability to study the original languages and compare many translations. that is still a huge undertaking and we each continue to learn constantly. He reveals more the more we search when we are willing to receive His teaching.

who even knew that Psalm 119 was the Son's prayer for life and to be raised from the dead to life again? there are some translation issues in Psalm 119 in a few verses that misled people. None of the translations are entirely accurate all the time. They do tell us what we need to know to be saved though. Believe on Adonai Yahshua Messiah for the forgiveness of sins and receive Eternal Life.

 

[evyaniy]

He had to fulfill and accomplish the law by offering His life as a Sacrifice to save us from our sins and death. He had not yet accomplished that till He died on the cross and was raised from the dead. The Gospel of Salvation by grace through faith in Him was committed to the Apostles and Paul as we are told in the Epistles.

2 Corinthians

17 Therefore if anyone is in Messiah, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold,* all things have become new. 18 But all things are of YAH, Who reconciled us to Himself through Yeshua the Messiah, and gave to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 namely, that YAH was in Messiah reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Messiah, as though YAH were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Messiah, be reconciled to YAH. 21 For Him(the Son) Who knew no sin He(the Father) made to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him(the Son) we might become the righteousness of YAH.

 

[evyaniy]

Romans 14 or 16 depending on the translation.

24 Now to Him Who is able to establish you according to my Gospel and the proclaiming of Yahshua the Messiah, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret through long ages, 25 but now is revealed, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal EL, is made known for obedience of faith to all the nations; 26 to the only wise EL, through Yahshua the Messiah, to Whom be the glory forever! Amen.

 

[evyaniy]

check this out and all that it tells us.....

Galatians 1

1 Paul, an Apostle—not from men, nor through man, but by Yahshua the Messiah, and YAH the Father, Who raised Him(the Son) from the dead— 2 and all the brothers who are with me, to the assemblies of Galatia: 3 Grace to you and peace from YAH the Father and our Adonai Yahshua the Messiah, 4 Who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our YAH and Father— 5 to Whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

- Paul was an Apostle by the Son
- YAH the Father raised the Son from the dead
- we receive grace from Father and Son by what they did to save us.
- the Son gave Himself for our sins to save us.
- it was the Father's will that the Son gave His life to save us. The Son was being obedient to the Father and the law in offering His life for us.

 

[evyaniy]

Paul tells us where he received the Gospel of grace.

Galatians 1

11 But I make known to you, brothers, concerning the Good News which was preached by me, that it is not according to man. 12 For I didn’t receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[evyaniy]

Galatians 2

16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Yahshua the Messiah, even we believed in Messiah Yahshua, that we might be justified by faith in Messiah and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law. 17 But if while we sought to be justified in Messiah, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Messiah a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a law-breaker.

19 For I through the law died to the law, that I might live to YAH. 20 I have been crucified with Messiah, and it is no longer I who live, but Messiah lives in me. That life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of YAH, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21 I don’t reject the grace of YAH. For if righteousness is through the law, then Messiah died for nothing!”

Yet the law required the Son to give His life to be fully obedient. So we are saved by grace through faith in the Son Who fulfilled and was completely obedient to the law in offering Himself to save us as the law required of Him. We are saved through His obedience to the law and so was He. The Father raised Him to life again because of His complete obedience in giving His life as the Father and law required of Him. He accomplished His victory over death through His death on the cross and His Father raised Him as was promised in the law. Leviticus 18:5

 

[Goliath]

People who teach the law and rules and regulations are seeking to draw disciples after themselves.

And that's Exactly why Jesus taught the Law of Grace.
What is the law of Grace?
Its a Law which

It is the covenant in Christ's blood, He did good and got our bad, we did bad and got Christ's good that's the deal, the covenant. We sinned and He was punished for it.

Our sin was accounted to Him and His righteousness was accredited to us. What a salvation.

Now the law exceeded it's authority when it demanded the execution of Jesus, the law which must always be black and white, which can never be transgressed is found to be in transgression itself in-as-much as it demanded and took the life of One who was innocent.

Therefore the law is at an end.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you are a follower of Jesus Christ....you are also under the Law of Christ...He is your Lord and you serve him, he does not serve you.