What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[oyster67]

What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

Sounds pretty straightforward to me, but I will read your OP.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't?

God's love and desire for fellowship did not start only 2000 years ago. It is the reason He created us in the first place.

What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members?

It's not that way with God. It is His desire that none should perish, but that all should choose to come. He died for all. He bought everyone a ticket. It is sad that many will just throw it in the trash.

It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not.

God's nature is love towards all men, but when they reject it, His justice requires negative consequences.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

I am asking for unbiased thought.

Our own personal thoughts on this matter are irrelevant. The Bible is crystal clear on these things. We follow the Word of God, not the thoughts of men. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but we must stand on the solid rock of God's Word, and it alone.

 

[Cameron143]

The desire has to mutual i would imagine there's truth in belief that true desire as in the heart of Christ for a person begins at 40. You know the saying life begins at 40, because thats how long the father taught the 12 tribes of Israel about life and it's desires.

So your Question of does God have to do anything for you to desire is he allready has it's up to you if you volunteer.
You just have to live your life, and at some point with all the knowledge that's in the would there should be some point where you feal as if you want to volunteer.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cameron143]

What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

Sounds pretty straightforward to me, but I will read your OP.


God's love and desire for fellowship did not start only 2000 years ago. It is the reason He created us in the first place.


It's not that way with God. It is His desire that none should perish, but that all should choose to come. He died for all. He bought everyone a ticket. It is sad that many will just throw it in the trash.



God's nature is love towards all men, but when they reject it, His justice requires negative consequences.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”


Our own personal thoughts on this matter are irrelevant. The Bible is crystal clear on these things. We follow the Word of God, not the thoughts of men. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but we must stand on the solid rock of God's Word, and it alone.

Thanks for sharing. And if that's harsh you can give me harsh anytime.
Just so I understand, you do or do not believe God's desire requires an action on His part?
You also mentioned that God's nature is love towards all men. That's easy to see as God causes it to rain on the just and the unjust as well as in his longsuffering towards all. How do you reconcile that God's nature towards all is love when in Romans 9 he says Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If it is true that the giving of Himself is God's greatest gift, then the uttermost in giving Himself would be to give it to everyone possible. But not everyone experiences God this way.

You are ignoring the fact that God is not only LOVE but He is also LIGHT. Which means that God is both merciful and also just. God has made it crystal clear that ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY THE GOSPEL shall be saved. So don't try and put it on God if people refuse to obey the Gospel or reject the Gospel. That is their choice and they must face the consequences.

 

[Cameron143]

You are ignoring the fact that God is not only LOVE but He is also LIGHT. Which means that God is both merciful and also just. God has made it crystal clear that ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY THE GOSPEL shall be saved. So don't try and put it on God if people refuse to obey the Gospel or reject the Gospel. That is their choice and they must face the consequences.

If you would have taken the time to read all my posts you would know I'm not blaming God. If you weren't predisposed to think ill of threads I post, perhaps you wouldn't make unfounded criticisms or at the very least ask for clarification.
The question is...does God's desire that all men be saved require action on God's part?

For the record, God is beholden to no one. He was never obligated to save anyone.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you would have taken the time to read all my posts you would know I'm not blaming God.

You are the one who said "But not everyone experiences God this way." That is in fact blaming God.

 

[Cameron143]

You are the one who said "But not everyone experiences God this way." That is in fact blaming God.

No it isn't. God is under no obligation to treat everyone the same. I just pointed it out to show the difference you asked for.

 

[notmyown]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

this may be a most unhelpful idea, and if so i do ask your forgiveness...

... but what if we flip it around? what if the question becomes is it God's desire for humans to sin?
i think we can apply your further questions to it still?

ps-- imo post 2 shoulda been a mic drop

 

[notmyown]

You are just trying to unnecessarily complicate things. "God desires all people (all mankind) to be saved" speaks for itself. God offers salvation to all -- "whosoever" -- meaning anyone and everyone regardless of nationality, ethnicity, gender, or degree of wickedness.

that's not really true, though, is it?

for instance, you and i live in North America, in the western hemisphere. how was Moctezuma II offered salvation? or anyone else who lived and died in this hemisphere prior to (mostly) Europeans coming with knowledge of the True and Living God and the Gospel of His Son?

we can't fall back on Romans chapter 1 since in fact, general revelation is enough to damn a person, but no more.
it takes special revelation found in the Bible for a person to be saved, doesn't it?

 

[notmyown]

the problem is some members of your family do not want to join you or enjoy your company, some of them plan to go part way and then kill you and take over the whole excursion.

sorry i snipped your post, Billy, but the above makes me wonder if you've met my family.

 

[oyster67]

you do or do not believe God's desire requires an action on His part?

God's love prompted many actions down through the ages... acts of grace and mercy. The greatest of all was when He gave His only begotten Son for the sins of everyone.

How do you reconcile that God's nature towards all is love when in Romans 9 he says Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated?

Jacob and Esau, in that context, are used as Old Testament symbols that represent righteousness and sin. God loves righteousness and hates sin. Gods loves all as individuals. That includes Esau and Judas. It even includes me.

 

[Cameron143]

this may be a most unhelpful idea, and if so i do ask your forgiveness...

... but what if we flip it around? what if the question becomes is it God's desire for humans to sin?
i think we can apply your further questions to it still?

ps-- imo post 2 shoulda been a mic drop

Your comments are always welcome. I'm never offended by anyone's posts.
The question was born out of a conversation I was having with another.
The gist of it was how could God both desire salvation for all men and at the same time fit some for destruction.
I think the way most people see these things is based more on their understanding of salvation rather than what may actually be true. But sentiment doesn't allow for a thoughtful discussion.
For the record, I don't believe God has to act on a desire. Neither do I think He has made any to destroy. Every person being born besides Jesus is born into a fallen estate and fit themselves for destruction as a matter of living. All that is required for someone to live, die, and go to hell is for God to do nothing.

 

[Cameron143]

God's love prompted many actions down through the ages... acts of grace and mercy. The greatest of all was when He gave His only begotten Son for the sins of everyone.


Jacob and Esau, in that context, are used as Old Testament symbols that represent righteousness and sin. God loves righteousness and hates sin. Gods loves all as individuals. That includes Esau and Judas. It even includes me.

I appreciate you sharing.

 

[HeIsHere]

For the record, I don't believe God has to act on a desire.

God's desire for something is not about His actions but the desire He has towards the actions of the other.

 

[Simona1988]

How do you reconcile that God's nature towards all is love when in Romans 9 he says Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated?

The word "hate" is a Hebraism which does not contradict the nature of God, it simply indicates the secondary position of Esau in the order of God's preferences. The same word is used in Luke 14:26. The idea is not that of hatred, but of position in a hierarchy; rephrased, it would be like this: whoever puts his family above Jesus Christ, cannot be His disciple.

 

[oyster67]

God has made the uttermost in provision for salvation in that He gave Himself.

That's right. What he did not do was force His gift upon us. God has OFFERED salvation to all men.

the uttermost in giving Himself would be to give it to everyone possible.

The uttermost in giving Himself would be to offer His gift to everyone possible, which is exactly what He has done.

But not everyone experiences God this way.

That is because they have chosen not to.
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Yet God remains able to do so. So in experience or application there are some who don't experience God's uttermost who conceivably could.

Love is not something you can force upon someone. Once something is forced, it is no longer love.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It's not that way with God. It is His desire that none should perish, but that all should choose to come. He died for all. He bought everyone a ticket. It is sad that many will just throw it in the trash.

Christ's death on the cross accomplished his purpose in redeeming all of those that his Father gave him. It was not a ticket for anyone to respond to.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That's right. What he did not do was force His gift upon us. God has OFFERED salvation to all men.

Eternal salvation, for those that God gave to his Son, was an offering to God, for God's acceptance. Not to mankind for their acceptance. "IT IS FINISHED" says it all.

 

[Cameron143]

God's desire for something is not about His actions but the desire He has towards the actions of the other.

That's very interesting. So God's desire is that people will seek after Him? Since the Bible says none seek after God, would God have to act to go get them?

 

[Simona1988]

I recommend you to read the book Jesus, The Son of Man, by Khalil Gibran. The book shows the perspective of different people (Matthew, Mary Magdalene, Joseph of Arimathea, Judas the Iscariot, Pilates, Caiaphas, a widow, a shepherd, John etc.) on Jesus Christ after they meet Him.