What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[Cameron143]

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. I gave other Scriptures to show
they are more than interrelated. “And you shall love the Lord your God from your whole heart.” It is
more than a feeling. In Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (Royal Publishers Edition, 1975)
the Hebrew word for purposed (“siym” 7760) can also mean commit (“for Daniel committed in his heart”).
The mind, will, and conscience are just as involved. i.e., “Do not be afraid, Daniel,” he said, “for from the
first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were
heard, and I have come in response to them." Daniel purposed (an act of the will) to understand (mind)
and to humble himself before God (his love for God)... all showing what was in his heart. As to speaking
every emotion, I am not sure why you say that. The mind is often perplexed by emotions, and they can
not always be spoken for any number of reasons, regardless of one's desire to do so.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. I gave other Scriptures to show
they are more than interrelated. “And you shall love the Lord your God from your whole heart.” It is
more than a feeling. In Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (Royal Publishers Edition, 1975)
the Hebrew word for purposed (“siym” 7760) can also mean commit (“for Daniel committed in his heart”).
The mind, will, and conscience are just as involved. i.e., “Do not be afraid, Daniel,” he said, “for from the
first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were
heard, and I have come in response to them." Daniel purposed (an act of the will) to understand (mind)
and to humble himself before God (his love for God)... all showing what was in his heart. As to speaking
every emotion, I am not sure why you say that. The mind is often perplexed by emotions, and they can
not always be spoken for any number of reasons, regardless of one's desire to do so.

You don't seem to think I'm understanding what you are saying and perhaps I'm not. But I do appreciate the responses and the time invested to give them.

 

[Cameron143]

I think there are degrees of desire, and that the greater the desire the more one is willing to sacrifice or "work" for it. With your particular example, it also depends on how much you are able to afford. If you cannot incur all expenses and can only afford to treat a few family members, there is not much else you can do and I don't think this inability to afford all expenses weighs against your desire. However, if you can afford all expenses but only want to treat a few members, I think your desire for a family vacation where everyone attends is not as great.

With respect to God's desire that all people are saved, one observation made in the Bible is that Jesus does not chase down nonbelievers or spends all of his energy to convert any particular person. He tries to make a person believe once of twice, and then moves to another person, another town, etc. One example is the story of the rich man, if I remember correctly, Jesus saw the rich man walk away since the rich man did not want to give away his possessions. Even when Jesus teaches others, including Nicodemus, He moves on without securing their faith.

So, while I believe God desires that all people are saved, He still requires faith and won't force us to believe. A lot of atheists argue if God wants them to believe, why isn't God easily visible. However, Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen, so this makes me believe that God requires this sort of faith. I am not sure if God pursues us continually if we don't pursue him, but He is always available when we decide to return. The way God desires is different from how humans desire, as we humans do not require faith and the issues we deal with eachother are different from salvation which for Christians requires faith.

Thanks for responding. Actually the only thing I'm asking is whether or not a desire of God requires Him to act.

 

[Adstar]

Thanks for responding. Actually the only thing I'm asking is whether or not a desire of God requires Him to act.

If Gods desires are good then would you not agree that it would be a sin for God to not act on a good desire in some way?

(James 4:17) "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

 

[Goliath]

Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people?

No, we desire to be saved, but God decides....who he will save. I say this because, many believers think they are saved, just because they want to be saved. Ultimately.....It's Gods decision.
My witness?
(Romans 9:18)
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
(Jude 1:21)
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine?

Yes....he gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Why?
God gives us this gift, to lead us down the path of righteousness. In other words...the Holy Spirit is our Godly Conscience, who tells us Right from Wrong. But many believers follow the teachings in their churches, teachings which are nothing but platitudes....as to the receiving of this gift.
My witness?
(Psalms 23:3)
He restores my soul: he leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

Equally?
Yes and No.
God acts according to your efforts, your effort in the following of the Holy Spirit. In other words...when you follow the righteous path, on which the Holy Spirit is leading you, you will be blessed. These blessings are there to encourage you to continue down the path of righteousness....and eventually your salvation.
My witness?
(Romans 2:6-7)
God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:4)
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

 

[Evmur]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

the problem is some members of your family do not want to join you or enjoy your company, some of them plan to go part way and then kill you and take over the whole excursion.

Predestination is in the inner nature of each person ... to some of us the cross is the sweet savour of life [or more truly it is made to be so for us] to others it is the foul stench of death.

 

[Cameron143]

If Gods desires are good then would you not agree that it would be a sin for God to not act on a good desire in some way?

(James 4:17) "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Since God cannot sin, and He alone is good, His every action is thereby good. That doesn't mean it is always beneficial to the recipient in part or full. Often the actions of God bring salvation to one group and death to another. Is He still good? Of course.
God will act to bring His every promise and purpose to fruition. But the end of your logic requires either God to act to the uttermost on someone's behalf and do everything in His power to benefit them, or there is more to goodness than has been considered.

 

[Cameron143]

No, we desire to be saved, but God decides....who he will save. I say this because, many believers think they are saved, just because they want to be saved. Ultimately.....It's Gods decision.
My witness?
(Romans 9:18)
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
(Jude 1:21)
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


Yes....he gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Why?
God gives us this gift, to lead us down the path of righteousness. In other words...the Holy Spirit is our Godly Conscience, who tells us Right from Wrong. But many believers follow the teachings in their churches, teachings which are nothing but platitudes....as to the receiving of this gift.
My witness?
(Psalms 23:3)
He restores my soul: he leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.




Equally?
Yes and No.
God acts according to your efforts, your effort in the following of the Holy Spirit. In other words...when you follow the righteous path, on which the Holy Spirit is leading you, you will be blessed. These blessings are there to encourage you to continue down the path of righteousness....and eventually your salvation.
My witness?
(Romans 2:6-7)
God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:4)
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cameron143]

the problem is some members of your family do not want to join you or enjoy your company, some of them plan to go part way and then kill you and take over the whole excursion.

Predestination is in the inner nature of each person ... to some of us the cross is the sweet savour of life [or more truly it is made to be so for us] to others it is the foul stench of death.

Do you believe a desire in one person is lessened or nullified because of the intentions and actions of another? In other words, are God's desires independent of his omniscience?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

(2 Peter 3:9) "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

You questions made me think of the above verse.. I see it as a verse to counter any teaching that God created people with no hope of salvation,, created simply to burn in the eternal lake of fire..

Gods intention has cause Him to act by giving us the Way we can avoid perishing by Believing His Word and trusting in the atonement He provides for all who will accept it..

Gods desire also prompts Him to send the Holy Spirit to convict people and move them.. The Holy Spirit will work on a person who is seeking the will of God by guiding them in reading scriptures for example..

So does Gods expressed will that he does not desire that any should perish cause Him to take actions to save people? Yes indeed.. Can people resist His efforts to move them to salvation? Yes indeed many have resisted the moving of the Holy Spirit..

The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, before he has been reborn spiritually, will not, and indeed, cannot accept the Holy Spirit, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.

2 Pet 3:9 - To keep it in context of who Peter is directing this warning to, we have to read 2 Pet 1:1, and it is directed to thom that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is including himself in his warning by using the word "USWARD".

Peter is warning them that, when they commit a sin, they should repent, because God is longsuffering, not willing that any of them should perish=death=separate themselves from God's fellowship.

 

[Magenta]

You don't seem to think I'm understanding what you are saying and perhaps I'm not. But I do appreciate the responses and the time invested to give them.

Since you disagreed with what I said, it did seem you did not understand that when speaking of the heart, which I consider to be the innermost aspect of a person, I also consider there to be various functions, which Scripture corroborates, for which I gave examples .

 

[VARob]

Peter is warning them that, when they commit a sin, they should repent, because God is longsuffering, not willing that any of them should perish=death=separate themselves from God's fellowship.

Perish and death do not mean "separate," unless you mean separate from life. If someone is separated from life they are dead. Perished.

 

[Mem]

Once upon a time, there was a king who searched his world for a suitable bride for his son and none were found because everyone was clothed in rags. And so, the prince exchanged his robes for rags and the king sent his son into the world to see which of those would take him at his word that he is heir to a kingdom and which of those would believe his promise to return for them with suitable robes by which they would enter his kingdom and rule alongside him. The prince set out searching for faith, but would he find it?

Likewise, God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Even if we start out with imperfect faith, He perfects those in faith, rather than rewarding the faithless, to make a perfect union. If a groom offers his ring (which circular design symbolizes eternity), a would-be bride can refuse to accept the proposal, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that the reality of the love and all which is representatively contained within it was never embodied by the offering of the ring.

It's just that true love isn't so believable, having so very few genuine earthly examples of it, that too many ends up confounding it rather than profoundly realizing it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If we are to believe God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth, repent,
and be saved, how can we also believe He makes it impossible for some to come?

The only answer is that salvstion is an offer made freely to all because he desires us all to repent and be saved he doesn’t make us receive the gift or keep us from receving it it’s a choice we all make eventually it’s freely available for everyone now and here anyone can choose salvation on Christ but many won’t God told us this from foreknowledge not dictation

 

[Magenta]

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

 

[Magenta]

Even if we start out with imperfect faith, He perfects those in faith, rather than rewarding the faithless, to make a perfect union.

Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief .

 

[Magenta]

Since God cannot sin, and He alone is good, His every action is thereby good. That doesn't mean it is always beneficial to the
recipient in part or full. Often the actions of God bring salvation to one group and death to another. Is He still good? Of course.
God will act to bring His every promise and purpose to fruition. But the end of your logic requires either God to act to the uttermost
on someone's behalf and do everything in His power to benefit them, or there is more to goodness than has been considered.

Some might say that God did act to the uttermost by sending Himself in the likeness of human flesh to pay the sin debt for the sins of the whole world, with the caveat, of course, according to Scripture, that it is only those who believe, by grace through faith, in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, who are reconciled to God and attain to life ever after, thereby escaping the second and final everlasting death.

Surely not many if any would want to give up what Jesus did and suffer
what he suffered, for our sake, due to His great and everlasting love.

 

[Cameron143]

Some might say that God did act to the uttermost by sending Himself in the likeness of human flesh to pay the sin debt for the sins of the whole world, with the caveat, of course, according to Scripture, that it is only those who believe, by grace through faith, in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, who are reconciled to God and attain to life ever after, thereby escaping the second and final everlasting death.

Surely not many if any would want to give up what Jesus did and suffer
what he suffered, for our sake, due to His great and everlasting love.

Doesn't the caveat show that the uttermost would be to not only to make it possible but secure it to each and everyone? Because there is a condition that excludes the uttermost forsome, logically it would mean it is not the uttermost. Only those who believe would receive the uttermost. Others receive less than the uttermost.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Others receive less than the uttermost.

What exactly does this means?

 

[Magenta]

Doesn't the caveat show that the uttermost would be to not only to make it possible but secure it to each and everyone? Because there is a condition that excludes the uttermost for some, logically it would mean it is not the uttermost. Only those who believe would receive the uttermost. Others receive less than the uttermost.

That would preclude man making a choice to accept and believe what God has provided and purposed
from before the foundation of the world. It is often said that God does not desire robots/puppets, but
those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. That also means, of their own volition. What you seem
to be getting at, or perhaps I am imagining it; are you thinking God does more for some than others,
to make it possible for them to know and love Him? However, one of the caveats is that we seek Him
earnestly: You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
Paradoxically God knows none are truly seeking Him, but the lost do seek truth, which is embodied in Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

What exactly does this means?

While God has done the uttermost in the provision of salvation, He has not done the uttermost in its application.

If you have followed the posts, I was responding first to what is entailed in the goodness of God. Is God's goodness reflected to the uttermost to be considered good or can it include negative aspects to some?

This particular part you lifted was in consideration of what uttermost entails from a succeeding post.