What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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#41
Mar 1, 2022
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#41
Magenta said:
That would preclude man making a choice to accept and believe what God has provided and purposed
from before the foundation of the world. It is often said that God does not desire robots/puppets, but
those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. That also means, of their own volition. What you seem
to be getting at, or perhaps I am imagining it; are you thinking God does more for some than others,
to make it possible for them to know and love Him? However, one of the caveats is that we seek Him
earnestly: You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
Paradoxically God knows none are truly seeking Him, but the lost do seek truth, which is embodied in Jesus.
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I was responding to the question posed that if God must do good, what does that mean? In doing good, does that mean to His possible limits or not and can a negative human outcome be included in God doing good?
Given the response of the poster, these are the questions that came to mind.
 
MsMediator

MsMediator

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#42
Mar 8, 2022
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#42
Cameron143 said:
While God has done the uttermost in the provision of salvation, He has not done the uttermost in its application.

If you have followed the posts, I was responding first to what is entailed in the goodness of God. Is God's goodness reflected to the uttermost to be considered good or can it include negative aspects to some?
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This is a very diest point of view and likely what many of the US founding fathers believed.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#43
Jul 3, 2015
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#43
Cameron143 said:
I was responding to the question posed that if God must do good, what does that mean? In doing good, does that mean to His possible limits or not and can a negative human outcome be included in God doing good?
Given the response of the poster, these are the questions that came to mind.
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It seems that doing all in His power to assure everyone repent and believe would by necessity
mean He not allow people to choose for them self... which is why I responded the way I did .:)

And He must move in our life to even make making a choice possible.

He draws us with loving kindness, and is long suffering towards us.


Praise the Lord
:)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#44
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#44
MsMediator said:
This is a very diest point of view and likely what many of the US founding fathers believed.
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It's not meant as a comment on the wisdom of God in His provision of salvation. It only about what is uttermost.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#45
Mar 1, 2022
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#45
Magenta said:
It seems that doing all in His power to assure everyone repent and believe would by necessity
mean He not allow people to choose for them self... which is why I responded the way I did .:)

And He must move in our life to even make making a choice possible.

He draws us with loving kindness, and is long suffering towards us.


Praise the Lord
:)
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I'm not questioning the goodness of God. Neither do I question the wisdom of God or the sovereignty of God in His ways. I'm trying to figure out what it means practically in people's lives.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#46
Jul 3, 2015
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#46
MsMediator said:
This is a very diest point of view and likely what many of the US founding fathers believed.
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Deists deny God doing anything with/having anything to do with/interacting in any way with creation
after the fact of creation. That would most definitely include His incarnation and crucifixion etc.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#47
Cameron143 said:
While God has done the uttermost in the provision of salvation, He has not done the uttermost in its application.
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That clarifies nothing. You will need to use Scripture to back that up.
 
D

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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#48
Cameron143 said:
Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.
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Because you "desire their company" doesn't mean it's reciprocal. They may not "desire" yours. No different with the post statement, which words are self-explanatory.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#49
DJT_47 said:
Because you "desire their company" doesn't mean it's reciprocal. They may not "desire"
yours. No different with the post statement, which words are self-explanatory.
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This is true... yet in every case, He loved us first. How is it some are able to experience His love, while others remain hostile toward Him?
I realize Romans 1 does address this to an extent, but seeing God in creation can hardly be compared to knowing Him personally. This came up in a convo just yesterday... because even people who can acknowledge that there is a God may remain ignorant of the gospel.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#50
DJT_47 said:
Because you "desire their company" doesn't mean it's reciprocal. They may not "desire" yours. No different with the post statement, which words are self-explanatory.
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What you say can be true of their desire. But my desire is independent of their desire. I can still have the desire whether it is reciprocal or not.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#51
Jul 3, 2015
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#51
Cameron143 said:
I'm not questioning the goodness of God. Neither do I question the wisdom of God or the sovereignty
of God in His ways. I'm trying to figure out what it means practically in people's lives.
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I do not doubt that .:). It is as you say: we may not understand on every level how He works it out or rather perhaps
the order of salvic events when they would seem to differ in people's lives, but we can be sure He knows best .:D
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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#52
Jul 8, 2018
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#52
VARob said:
Perish and death do not mean "separate," unless you mean separate from life. If someone is separated from life they are dead. Perished.
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Will your explanation tell why Peter included himself? Do you deny that Peter is speaking to them that have obtained like precious faith?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#53
Pilgrimshope said:
The only answer is that salvstion is an offer made freely to all because he desires us all to repent and be saved he doesn’t make us receive the gift or keep us from receving it it’s a choice we all make eventually it’s freely available for everyone now and here anyone can choose salvation on Christ but many won’t God told us this from foreknowledge not dictation
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How do you make 1 Cor 2:14 harmonize with your theory?
 
T

Ted01

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#54
May 14, 2022
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#54
Cameron143 said:
Thanks for responding. Actually the only thing I'm asking is whether or not a desire of God requires Him to act.
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I think God did act by sending us Jesus... and sometimes still does in other ways.

Prov. 13:12 (ESV)
Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

I don't think that God is heartsick, and Jesus is the Tree of Life...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Nehemiah6 said:
That clarifies nothing. You will need to use Scripture to back that up.
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God has made the uttermost in provision for salvation in that He gave Himself. When God gave Abraham a reward, He gave Himself having no greater gift to give.
If it is true that the giving of Himself is God's greatest gift, then the uttermost in giving Himself would be to give it to everyone possible. But not everyone experiences God this way. Yet God remains able to do so. So in experience or application there are some who don't experience God's uttermost who conceivably could.
 
B

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
#56
Feb 17, 2023
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#56
Cameron143 said:
Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.
Click to expand...
I suggest that you do a word study only in the Bible of how the word in question when referring to God's desires is used.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#57
Ted01 said:
I think God did act by sending us Jesus... and sometimes still does in other ways.

Prov. 13:12 (ESV)
Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

I don't think that God is heartsick, and Jesus is the Tree of Life...
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying.
God did send Jesus but He says that was due to love, not desire. I would agree that for love to be love, action must be taken.

And the Proverb is awesome but is God's desire for all men to be saved fulfilled if someone doesn't get saved.
 
T

Ted01

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#59
May 14, 2022
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#59
Cameron143 said:
Thanks for replying.
God did send Jesus but He says that was due to love, not desire. I would agree that for love to be love, action must be taken.

And the Proverb is awesome but is God's desire for all men to be saved fulfilled if someone doesn't get saved.
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Well, that's a whole other kettle of fish... I think?

I do believe that mankind does have some freewill in making the choice of accepting God's gift of Salvation. But like others have pointed out, just because God has that desire, it might not be reciprocated.

So yes, God does have that desire, but He doesn't force us to desire it as well. IMHO.
 
Fundaamental

Fundaamental

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Mar 17, 2023
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#60
Cameron143 said:
Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.
Click to expand...
The desire has to mutual i would imagine there's truth in belief that true desire as in the heart of Christ for a person begins at 40. You know the saying life begins at 40, because thats how long the father taught the 12 tribes of Israel about life and it's desires.

So your Question of does God have to do anything for you to desire is he allready has it's up to you if you volunteer.
You just have to live your life, and at some point with all the knowledge that's in the would there should be some point where you feal as if you want to volunteer.
 
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