Deception in the church

[Roughsoul1991]

Pentecost is the feast of new wine. Jesus told us you have to put new wine into new wine skins. The church was the new wine skin and the Spirit was the new wine. Everyone heard the gospel in their own language, this is what we have seen for the last two thousand years.

There is no charge to "speak in tongues" but there is a charge to preach the gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth and there is a charge to be the Lord's witnesses.

Any pastors or Bible teachers who don't understand this should begin again at the basic tenets of the NT.

Anyone who teaches that speaking in tongues is a prerequisite to being saved should learn to restrict themselves to the fellowship of the apostles.

I agree tongues is not a prerequisite of being saved.

There is no charge to "speak in tongues"

But here is the charge.

1 Corinthians 14:5
English Standard Version

5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

Why doesn't all speak in tongues well in context it is of the gifts so despite the attempts of all, not all will be gifted.

1 Corinthians 13:7-10
English Standard Version

7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

The perfect has not arrived. Also those who use to say the sign gifts have ceased never add knowledge for some reason.

I'm not gifted in speaking tongues as in a foreign language or in private prayer. But regardless the scripture below make it clear what is more important than a private prayer language is words of intelligible meaning.

1 Corinthians 14:6-19
English Standard Version

6 Now, brothers,[a] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider[b] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

So notice I will pray and sing in the Spirit but my mind also.

Paul is directing order and not promoting gibberish.

 

[ZNP]

I agree tongues is not a prerequisite of being saved.



But here is the charge.

1 Corinthians 14:5
English Standard Version

5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

Why doesn't all speak in tongues well in context it is of the gifts so despite the attempts of all, not all will be gifted.

1 Corinthians 13:7-10
English Standard Version

7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

The perfect has not arrived. Also those who use to say the sign gifts have ceased never add knowledge for some reason.

I'm not gifted in speaking tongues as in a foreign language or in private prayer. But regardless the scripture below make it clear what is more important than a private prayer language is words of intelligible meaning.

1 Corinthians 14:6-19
English Standard Version

6 Now, brothers,[a] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider[b] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

So notice I will pray and sing in the Spirit but my mind also.

Paul is directing order and not promoting gibberish.

Paul never refers to tongues as gibberish and never speaks insultingly towards tongues. His point is that the meetings should be done in order so that everyone could benefit.

 

[Gideon300]

“The argument that Christians are divided by denominations is overstated.”

ever heard of the Catholic Protestant wars , the crusades ? Millions donchrirtians have killed other Christian’s over denominational differences

and even today can’t agree on basic fundamental points that are written the same in the Bible they all read

without unity in a body you have body parts

just my opinion I’d say unity of faith is probably the most dire need for the church today

If you are looking for unity of doctrine, forget it. And 99% of the disagreements (I do not include Catholicism in this) are minor. I was in the Australia Navy as a young Christian and I went to whatever church I could find in whatever place we visited. I discovered that Christians in various denominations were much the same.

Sure, there were some terrible things done in the early days of the reformation. I don't see the local Baptist churches shooting up the Anglicans because they don't agree with infant baptism. I was a member of the Baptist denomination for some years. I left to go to a Pentecostal assembly then a non denominational home based group.

What pleases God? Ephesians 4

"As a prisoner in the Lord, then, I urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling you have received: with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.'

Doctrinal correctness at the expense of humility, love and peace is destructive. Yes, we need to seek unity in faith. While we do that, we need to stay humble. No one has the whole truth. We are not capable of knowing it all and God will not allow it. It's hard enough to avoid the cult of personality and blight of spiritual pride as it is.

 

[JTB]

Has anyone noticed the increase in deception these days? I know that the Bible talks about how many false prophets will arise in the end times and how satan deceives the word through his sorceries (pharmakeia) but have you noticed a very sharp spike in deception (especially in churches) in the last couple of years? Thank God for discernment and His grace is enough to ensure that true believers are not deceived but it seems like it's getting so much harder to distinguish the sheep from the wolves. Satan is so so crafty these days and it seems like a lot of the church have fallen victim to his schemes. I don't wanna be too specific and point the finger at particular ministries but I am noticing that a lot of new age has crept into the church and it's alarming to say the least. And don't get me started on the state of Christian music these days (just take a look at the "Christian" artists that performed at the Grammy's this year). It's so sad to see what the church looks like. Asleep and deceived. I know that there's a remnant of true believers out there and thank God for that but it seems like the "church" as a whole has been infiltrated. It makes finding a biblically sound local church very difficult.

Republicans are the false prophets the Bible warns us about.

Liberals are how satan gets us to buy into their deceptions.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Paul never refers to tongues as gibberish and never speaks insultingly towards tongues. His point is that the meetings should be done in order so that everyone could benefit.

I agree.

 

[Karlon]

Yes. And the people go away under the delusion that they are spiritual because they are emotionally pumped. They could get the same effect at a Taylor Swift concert.

make sure you know all the lyrics to all the songs you cringe at. i'm a musician & most people have no idea what a song is about. a lot of rock bands get a bad name like they're evil when the accuser knows very little about music or the bands image. some of the rock bands lyrics are quite deep in message.

 

[jaybo]

Republicans are the false prophets the Bible warns us about.

Liberals are how satan gets us to buy into their deceptions.

So that leaves moderate Democrats!

 

[Cameron143]

So that leaves moderate Democrats!

Moderate Democrats are as rare as unicorns.

 

[jaybo]

Moderate Democrats are as rare as unicorns.

That just shows your ignorance.

 

[HeIsHere]

That just shows your ignorance.

Wow, every post of yours is a very unwarranted put down.
It is really getting to be tiresome.

 

[814MB]

make sure you know all the lyrics to all the songs you cringe at. i'm a musician & most people have no idea what a song is about. a lot of rock bands get a bad name like they're evil when the accuser knows very little about music or the bands image. some of the rock bands lyrics are quite deep in message.

It’s kinda easy to know the lyrics when they’re up on a screen in front of you

 

[Cameron143]

That just shows your ignorance.

One man's ignorance seems to be another man's truth around here.

 

[Cameron143]

Wow, every post of yours is a very unwarranted put down.
It is really getting to be tiresome.

Love suffers long. Don't become weary in well doing, for your labor is not in vain.

 

[cv5]

I cringe at most modern “worship” songs. So much *I* in them.

100% agree. Frankly I am thrilled that others see it the same way I do.
I never ever listen to modern pop gospel music.

I have a large collection of old-time hymns and classical worship music that I listen to exclusively.

 

[Gideon300]

make sure you know all the lyrics to all the songs you cringe at. i'm a musician & most people have no idea what a song is about. a lot of rock bands get a bad name like they're evil when the accuser knows very little about music or the bands image. some of the rock bands lyrics are quite deep in message.

I am not interested in secular music. I'm referring to what passes for Christian songs these days. I will clarify what I mea.
1. Lack of content. A lot of Christian songs talk about worship but that's all - talk.
2. Focus on self. Real worship focuses on the One being worshiped. Many popular songs are full of "I will" as if it was something to boast about. Not at all.
3. Frequent use of "You", "He" instead of "Jesus". The song could be directed to anyone. Not every song needs to include the name of Jesus but many more could and should. For example, an older song that has the line, "He is the Lord"....... It would have been so easy to say, "Jesus is Lord". There are plenty of songs that glorify the name without saying the name of Jesus.
4. Repetition. Some songs go on and on and on, saying the same thing as if God were not paying attention. Perhaps He is not with some of the stuff I've heard!

A lot of the old hymns were little better. However, there are many that are obviously inspired by the Holy Spirit. Some of the new songs also are anointed. It troubles me that few music leaders seem to discern the difference between anointed songs and those that are of little spiritual worth.

 

[cv5]

I am not interested in secular music. I'm referring to what passes for Christian songs these days. I will clarify what I mea.
1. Lack of content. A lot of Christian songs talk about worship but that's all - talk.
2. Focus on self. Real worship focuses on the One being worshiped. Many popular songs are full of "I will" as if it was something to boast about. Not at all.
3. Frequent use of "You", "He" instead of "Jesus". The song could be directed to anyone. Not every song needs to include the name of Jesus but many more could and should. For example, an older song that has the line, "He is the Lord"....... It would have been so easy to say, "Jesus is Lord". There are plenty of songs that glorify the name without saying the name of Jesus.
4. Repetition. Some songs go on and on and on, saying the same thing as if God were not paying attention. Perhaps He is not with some of the stuff I've heard!

A lot of the old hymns were little better. However, there are many that are obviously inspired by the Holy Spirit. Some of the new songs also are anointed. It troubles me that few music leaders seem to discern the difference between anointed songs and those that are of little spiritual worth.

Agree on your take on the modern music.

On the other hand the old-time hymns in my collection redounding in glorious praise and worship. Wholly centered, fixated upon Christ. Quite thrilling really.

 

[Karlon]

I am not interested in secular music. I'm referring to what passes for Christian songs these days. I will clarify what I mea.
1. Lack of content. A lot of Christian songs talk about worship but that's all - talk.
2. Focus on self. Real worship focuses on the One being worshiped. Many popular songs are full of "I will" as if it was something to boast about. Not at all.
3. Frequent use of "You", "He" instead of "Jesus". The song could be directed to anyone. Not every song needs to include the name of Jesus but many more could and should. For example, an older song that has the line, "He is the Lord"....... It would have been so easy to say, "Jesus is Lord". There are plenty of songs that glorify the name without saying the name of Jesus.
4. Repetition. Some songs go on and on and on, saying the same thing as if God were not paying attention. Perhaps He is not with some of the stuff I've heard!

A lot of the old hymns were little better. However, there are many that are obviously inspired by the Holy Spirit. Some of the new songs also are anointed. It troubles me that few music leaders seem to discern the difference between anointed songs and those that are of little spiritual worth.

It's quite an open area. you would have to talk to all the song writers of the songs you are referring to. it seems you are overthinking here. yes, i have heard some"Christian" songs that didn't seem Christian. & some songs that had no "catch" another words, the song had no start or groove. you are missing a lot in secular rock. there's a lot of clean rock & roll that's great. & i can tell you being an experienced musician, that i have never heard any Christian musician play half as well as some of the rock guys. many of them are virtuoso's. i like Christian rock, but for me, it gets to simple some time.

 

[JTB]

So that leaves moderate Democrats!

That actually leaves moderate democrats, moderate republicans, independents, and non partisans. But even pulling from all four corners, that is a very, very small number these days.

 

[jaybo]

That actually leaves moderate democrats, moderate republicans, independents, and non partisans. But even pulling from all four corners, that is a very, very small number these days.

Large enough number to elect Joe Biden as President.

 

[GaryA]

Oh - is that all it takes to steal an election...?