Deception in the church

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#42
They all read the same bible, yet they all believe different. If it's the bible that has TRUTH - why is it Christians who read the same bible can hardly agree on anything?
To believe differently doesn't necessarily hurt the truth in matters that the Bible is gray on. Many groups debate over gray areas. While orthodox beliefs are pretty much cemented in church history.
 
Dec 7, 2022
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#43
Maybe it's a problem for you but not me.
It's a problem for all of Christianity and one big reason why Christianity is going bad. People who critically think for themselves see the overwhelming contradictions and hypocrisy. Pre-trib and Trinity are the two most contradictory and divisive teachings in Christianity. Those two have driven people OUT. Fundamentalist Baptist, Pentecostal's, and Calvinist are the two groups most responsible for Christianity's decline.
 
Dec 7, 2022
45
13
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#44
To believe differently doesn't necessarily hurt the truth in matters that the Bible is gray on. Many groups debate over gray areas. While orthodox beliefs are pretty much cemented in church history.
The problem is that there really is very little to no 'gray area' in Christianity. It's either all of one or all of the other and anything in between is mox nix.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,432
3,684
113
#45
It's a problem for all of Christianity and one big reason why Christianity is going bad.
Yeah, Christianity's going bad, I agree; but it's not my job to save it. I'm not a savior; I do what I can.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#46
The problem is that there really is very little to no 'gray area' in Christianity. It's either all of one or all of the other and anything in between is mox nix.
I'll give you one example. Speaking in tongues. The Bible doesn't say this gift has ceased but it is also difficult for many to grasp what it is. What is false and if still active what is true. The Bible doesn't give us a audio sample, it doesn't describe how to do it either.

This is why many debate over gray issues but they are issues that are not related to salvation. For instance, you will see both young earth and old earth views on Genesis but most do not divide over that issue.

Many denominations can work alongside others for kingdom advancement.

Also the Bible says within some realms we only know the partial as God will reveal the whole on the day of the Lord.

But I agree, some issues are all or nothing and some are in grave error.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#47
It's a problem for all of Christianity and one big reason why Christianity is going bad. People who critically think for themselves see the overwhelming contradictions and hypocrisy. Pre-trib and Trinity are the two most contradictory and divisive teachings in Christianity. Those two have driven people OUT. Fundamentalist Baptist, Pentecostal's, and Calvinist are the two groups most responsible for Christianity's decline.
We get evidence for the trinity in John 1:1-14 and Genesis chapter 1.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
37,488
6,928
113
#48
I'll give you one example. Speaking in tongues. The Bible doesn't say this gift has ceased but it is also difficult for many to grasp what it is. What is false and if still active what is true. The Bible doesn't give us a audio sample, it doesn't describe how to do it either.

This is why many debate over gray issues but they are issues that are not related to salvation. For instance, you will see both young earth and old earth views on Genesis but most do not divide over that issue.

Many denominations can work alongside others for kingdom advancement.

Also the Bible says within some realms we only know the partial as God will reveal the whole on the day of the Lord.

But I agree, some issues are all or nothing and some are in grave error.
Pentecost is the feast of new wine. Jesus told us you have to put new wine into new wine skins. The church was the new wine skin and the Spirit was the new wine. Everyone heard the gospel in their own language, this is what we have seen for the last two thousand years.

There is no charge to "speak in tongues" but there is a charge to preach the gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth and there is a charge to be the Lord's witnesses.

Any pastors or Bible teachers who don't understand this should begin again at the basic tenets of the NT.

Anyone who teaches that speaking in tongues is a prerequisite to being saved should learn to restrict themselves to the fellowship of the apostles.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,701
1,235
113
#49
Has anyone noticed the increase in deception these days? I know that the Bible talks about how many false prophets will arise in the end times and how satan deceives the word through his sorceries (pharmakeia) but have you noticed a very sharp spike in deception (especially in churches) in the last couple of years? Thank God for discernment and His grace is enough to ensure that true believers are not deceived but it seems like it's getting so much harder to distinguish the sheep from the wolves. Satan is so so crafty these days and it seems like a lot of the church have fallen victim to his schemes. I don't wanna be too specific and point the finger at particular ministries but I am noticing that a lot of new age has crept into the church and it's alarming to say the least. And don't get me started on the state of Christian music these days (just take a look at the "Christian" artists that performed at the Grammy's this year). It's so sad to see what the church looks like. Asleep and deceived. I know that there's a remnant of true believers out there and thank God for that but it seems like the "church" as a whole has been infiltrated. It makes finding a biblically sound local church very difficult.
Scoffers abound. 1st timothy 6:10. for the LOVE of money is the root of all evil..... the devil has no power over the believer unless the believer lets him!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
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#50
Problem is who has the Truth? Christianity is the most divided religion on earth. The only thing the reformation big shots agreed on was their hate toward Rome - they disagreed on everything else.

The Lutheran's, the Anglican's, the Calvinist, and the Anabaptist all went their own ways.

Whose truth do you put in front of them? John MacArthur's? Here's a guy who says that IF you believe in anything BUT a 6-day creation - you are not a Christian! He also teaches that at the end of the Millennium, God destroys the entire universe! What a counter-productive God!

It doesn't take a false prophet or new-ager to destroy Christianity - Christians are their own worst enemy!
“But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against an house falleth.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#51
Scoffers abound. 1st timothy 6:10. for the LOVE of money is the root of all evil..... the devil has no power over the believer unless the believer lets him!
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Joelightening

Active member
Feb 27, 2023
107
93
28
#52
The falling away began a very long time ago. Everyone needs the close personal walk with Christ. Pray and live in the Spirit. Only God can reveal truth.
 

Aslanfriend

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2018
70
40
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#53
In regards to the Bible, it seems only people over a certain age-retirement age- I guess seem to be hungry for the word in my area. I've been to a LOT of churches over the years and rarely ever have I seen younger people or even people under 65 at actual Bible studies. I"m not talking about "let's study this guy or gals book and look up a few scripture passages." I mean dig into the word and discuss. I've always been the youngest in these groups and now I'm over 50 and am still the youngest, I think. Even CBS (Community Bible Study) this huge International Bible study is mostly older folk. Don't get me wrong, I love older people, and I'm becoming one myself, lol...but it seems like millienials are more interested in deconstructing their faith and figuring out what Enneagram number they are.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
3,222
113
#54
“But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against an house falleth.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
At least Christians do not go around killing or waging war on each other as different Muslim groups do. Sunni against Shia is the big one of course.

The argument that Christians are divided by denominations is overstated. People tend to go to a church where they are happy with the pastor. This is especially true of younger people who often know little about doctrinal differences. This is not a good thing. The truth is that there is one church in each locality. Denominations are the construct of men too proud to accept that others have the right to disagree. One day we will see just how petty some of the differences that divide us are.

I attend an Anglican church. The pastor is born again and loves Jesus. I've had far more of a welcome from him than any other church in my locality. I don't agree with several Anglican doctrines and he knows that. We do not argue about them. We have Jesus in common and that is enough.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
37,488
6,928
113
#55
At least Christians do not go around killing or waging war on each other as different Muslim groups do. Sunni against Shia is the big one of course.
:LOL::ROFL:Tell that to the Irish.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#56
At least Christians do not go around killing or waging war on each other as different Muslim groups do. Sunni against Shia is the big one of course.

The argument that Christians are divided by denominations is overstated. People tend to go to a church where they are happy with the pastor. This is especially true of younger people who often know little about doctrinal differences. This is not a good thing. The truth is that there is one church in each locality. Denominations are the construct of men too proud to accept that others have the right to disagree. One day we will see just how petty some of the differences that divide us are.

I attend an Anglican church. The pastor is born again and loves Jesus. I've had far more of a welcome from him than any other church in my locality. I don't agree with several Anglican doctrines and he knows that. We do not argue about them. We have Jesus in common and that is enough.
“The argument that Christians are divided by denominations is overstated.”

ever heard of the Catholic Protestant wars , the crusades ? Millions donchrirtians have killed other Christian’s over denominational differences

and even today can’t agree on basic fundamental points that are written the same in the Bible they all read

without unity in a body you have body parts

just my opinion I’d say unity of faith is probably the most dire need for the church today
 

Sweetest1

New member
Mar 17, 2023
20
9
3
#57
I've seen the deception in and out of church and I don't like that things which are taught in witch groups are being picked up by the general public such as manifesting and seeking out soothsayers.

It's getting creepy out here. 😣
 
Mar 11, 2023
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#58
The thing that hooks people into error is the music. Bethel/Hillsong and others. The combination of music and bad theology in the song, entices many. It opens them up to false teaching.
I cringe at most modern “worship” songs. So much *I* in them.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
3,222
113
#59
:LOL::ROFL:Tell that to the Irish.
You obviously know little about the Irish problem. It was not religious, It was political, nationalistic and materialistic. It was described as catholic against protestant because that was the main divide between Eire (Ireland) and Northern Ireland. Eire was dirt poor and resented the British, with some justification. The north was unwilling to give up its relative prosperity, which is understandable.

There is nothing Christian about terrorism, even if it is called freedom fighting.

It was Christians who brought an end to the conflict.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
3,222
113
#60
I cringe at most modern “worship” songs. So much *I* in them.
Yes. And the people go away under the delusion that they are spiritual because they are emotionally pumped. They could get the same effect at a Taylor Swift concert.