Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

[Magenta]

Correct and explain the process he went through to become that perfect lamb without spot!

During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears
to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. Although
He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. And having been made perfect, He
became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:7-9

 

[VARob]

2 Kings 2:11-12

But if you read that as there being a chatiot but Elijah not getting in it, and/or the chariot of Israel not belonging to God, that's fine. A minor and disputable interpretation.

There was a chariot and horses of fire, and they no doubt came from God, and there is no doubt that Elijah was carried into the sky (heaven) by them. You could say that it was "God's chariot" in the sense that it came from God, but to say that it was "God's chariot" implies that it was God's personal chariot. God does have a chariot, or chariot-throne (see the first couple chapters of Ezekiel..), but that was not the chariot that carried Elijah away.

That's all I meant..

 

[VARob]

From where I am standing your God and your Christ overcame nothing.

You need to move closer.

 

[F2F]

You are saying that sin represented itself in Jesus? When exactly did this occur?

If you say Jesus did not have your nature and that his body was not held under the condemnation of death then how were your sins represented in his body?

 

[F2F]

You are saying that the body of flesh of Jesus represented sin? And if we do not believe this then we have no atonement?

Correct.

Follow Paul's logic!

1 Corinthians 15: 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

So this is speaking about the condemnation our nature is under due to our inherited mortality - i.e we live and we die and nothing can stop this!

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Ah...right now we are getting closer to the issue at hand - the wages of sin is death right? in reverse the sting of death is sin - we also die because we sin!

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus experience the sting of death?

If you say a resounding "yes" then the sting of death is sin - how were your sins represented in the death of Christ on the cross.

Jesus had our exact nature and was condemn to die...how did God remove that from him?

By putting to death a sinnless man He broke the power of sin in the body of Jesus Christ

Therefore to God be the Victory.

If you said no to Jesus experiencing the sting of death or you intimated that he didn't really die....no atonement!

F2F

 

[VARob]

If you say Jesus did not have your nature and that his body was not held under the condemnation of death then how were your sins represented in his body?

Our sins are not "represented in his body." Jesus knew no sin and had no sin. His sacrificial death paid for our sins. He died in our place. He paid the price that we were all going to pay.

 

[F2F]

How you say that you say the Church is not destined to heaven when they are here illustrated to BE IN HEAVEN?

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 5:11
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 11:16
and the twenty and four elders, who before God are sitting upon their thrones, did fall upon their faces, and did bow before God,


What do you believe your Bible says as regards "heaven and hell going"?

Do you have a section of Scripture which is not highly symbolic?
I presume you don't infer the beasts and lamb to be literal?
You quoted verses that relate to a vision of the new governance which Christ is bringing with him when he returns. Remember it's a Kingdom of Heaven not in Heaven!
You know....Matthew 6:10
Show me verses that speak to ethereal souls being taken to heaven? Where in the Bible does it show this after death experience?
Good luck!

 

[F2F]

Our sins are not "represented in his body." Jesus knew no sin and had no sin. His sacrificial death paid for our sins. He died in our place. He paid the price that we were all going to pay.

No one said Jesus sinned.
"For this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of DEATH, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance".

Why death?

What was in the Masters body that required putting to death?

Go back to Romans 8:3

How was sinned condemned in the death of Jesus' body?

If the sting of death is sin
If the wages of sin is death

How was sin represented in the body of Jesus?

The only conclusion you can draw to is Jesus was under the same condemnation as you! This is the only righteous way God could have His Victory over the power of sin...which is death.

F2F

 

[F2F]

Our sins are not "represented in his body." Jesus knew no sin and had no sin. His sacrificial death paid for our sins. He died in our place. He paid the price that we were all going to pay.

Let me come at this from another angle.

"Forasmuch then as the children (you) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil."

What falsely accuses us before the God of the Living?
And how through death of Jesus did God destroy it's power?

You agree the sting of death is sin and the wages of sin is death

What is deaths power?

Answer = Sin

What is the devil which Christ destroyed in himself on the cross?

Sin's POWER i.e in the death of his nature and the removal of its condemnation.

God has the victory "through" the offering & sacrifice of Christ on a tree.

 

[F2F]

You need to move closer.

We are getting close now!
Let's see if you can move closer to the truth of Christs nature!

 

[F2F]

@F2F said: So why was he born of a woman; son of David after flesh and why would God condemn sin in the flesh of his son if it wasn't there to condemn?

But yet you say that sin dwells in the flesh of Jesus?

Sin's power dwells in the flesh of Jesus - big difference.
Our nature isn't sin but the affects of sins power resides in it...i.e we are condemned to die.

 

[F2F]

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Hebrews 4:15

How did God uphold His Righteousness all the while conquering the Power of Sin (death) in the body of Jesus Christ?

How?

If you say Jesus was nothing like you in nature, you have a fraudulent god who didn't actually have any victory at all. If death and its affects were not in Jesus what did God condemn in his death?

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses (our nature and its lusts), but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus had to have our fallen nature otherwise you believe in a mascaraed!

F2F

 

[F2F]

During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears
to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. Although
He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. And having been made perfect, He
became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:7-9

This is a wonderful response because it shows the process God put His Son (and us) through in becoming His Children.
A person who is "made" perfect and one who "became" something he was not previously is the Work of God.
Christians do well to remember this when speaking of their Messiah in the flesh.
F2F

 

[VARob]

What was in the Masters body that required putting to death?

Absolutely nothing.

Go back to Romans 8:3

How was sinned condemned in the death of Jesus' body?

Jesus' death was unjust. He did not deserve death. His unjust death paid the price for our sins.

If the sting of death is sin
If the wages of sin is death

How was sin represented in the body of Jesus?

You're repeating yourself. Sin was not represented in the body of Jesus.

The only conclusion you can draw to is Jesus was under the same condemnation as you!

No, that is certainly not the only conclusion to be drawn. Again, Jesus' death was unjust. He was absolutely not deserving of death.

This is the only righteous way God could have His Victory over the power of sin...which is death.

No it isn't. You need to rethink things.

 

[VARob]

Jesus had to have our fallen nature otherwise you believe in a mascaraed!

If Jesus had our fallen nature then he could not have been God's passover lamb and our sins are not atoned for.

What's a mascaraed?

 

[F2F]

Absolutely nothing.


Jesus' death was unjust. He did not deserve death. His unjust death paid the price for our sins.


You're repeating yourself. Sin was not represented in the body of Jesus.


No, that is certainly not the only conclusion to be drawn. Again, Jesus' death was unjust. He was absolutely not deserving of death.


No it isn't. You need to rethink things.

Good, you are using the word unjust!

But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
Acts 2:24

Can you see it?
Please don't make me have to explain it all over again!!!!

F2F

 

[F2F]

If Jesus had our fallen nature then he could not have been God's passover lamb and our sins are not atoned for.

What's a mascaraed?

Why? Jesus did not sin! Where did you get the idea that our fallen nature was conscious sin?

A mascaraed is a false show or pretence....it's what you believe if you think Jesus didn't share your condemned nature.

F2F

 

[F2F]

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Why is there no condemnation in Christ now?
What did God do to remove it?
We know He condemned it in a man who shared sin's flesh!
But how @VARob

 

[VARob]

Good, you are using the word unjust!

But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
Acts 2:24

Can you see it?
Please don't make me have to explain it all over again!!!!

F2F

Explain it "again"? lol

You haven't explained yourself at all. You give "hints," like you're trying to lead people somewhere. Where are you trying to lead them? Why don't you plainly say what you mean?

 

[VARob]

Why? Jesus did not sin! Where did you get the idea that our fallen nature was conscious sin?

I don't have the idea that our fallen nature is conscious sin. Even babies need salvation.

A mascaraed is a false show or pretence....

I think you meant masquerade.

it's what you believe if you think Jesus didn't share your condemned nature.

Jesus was a man, but a man without a sin nature. If Jesus had had a sin nature, he could not have saved anyone.