The Impeccability of Our Lord Jesus Christ

[posthuman]

There was no latent sin in Jesus to be stirred by temptation

this is in reference to how James defines the workings of temptation:

James 1:14-15
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

with this in hand, the question of whether Christ could be 'tempted' ((as opposed to tested)) becomes the question of whether He has in his heart desire to sin

considering this question, when we approach it, we must remember what He said on the mount about when a man looks at someone with desire to sin, it is evil just as though he had carried it out already.

is Christ desiring sin in His heart - even so by force of will restraining Himself and never committing it in corporeal - equivalent to Christ having sin in Himself?

 

[posthuman]

Where does the Bible says that Jesus OVERCAME sin? That is just nonsense. Indeed, He asked His enemies "Which of you accuses me of sin?" And He told the devil to beat it.

Satan imagined that he could tempt Christ. So he presented the three major temptations. And Christ simply knocked them down with Scripture. This would be similar to you having an aversion to ice cream. No matter how many flavors were presented, you would simply ignore them, because you hate ice cream (as an example). And since Christ hates sin and iniquity, He could not be tempted.

i like ice cream, but it makes my teeth hurt.

it seems weird to think of Jesus as refraining from sin because He was afraid He'd wind up in hell if He pursued it.

 

[posthuman]

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your response nope “that’s ridiculous the words aren’t real “

well, no - the argument here is that in English that should be understood as 'tested' not 'tempted' because there is no sin in Christ and 'temptation' implies that there is sin inside someone's heart that is being aroused.

for us, overcoming temptation consists of fighting against the wicked desires of our own flesh. the argument is that Christ is pure not just in His actions and words but in His heart and mind too.

 

[posthuman]

There’s no temptation you will ever face in your entire life that is foreign to jesus he’s already overcame whatever temptation you might imagine through his flesh the exact same way we do.

@Dino246 too -

let me put it this way,
did He overcome sin by really wanting to sin but figuring out how to avoid it? or by having every opportunity but never having a shadow of turning toward it?

and when He helps us in our temptations, is it by miraculously preventing our hands from sin or by miraculously changing our hearts so that we don't have a desire for it anymore?

if He is making us like Him is that to still have desire to sin in our regenerated hearts or to be free from it, desiring only righteousness?

brothers at least i hope i help you understand the point of view, that's all

 

[Happy_hobnob]

he became flesh , the flesh is what is tempted to sin

Jesus overcame it when his flesh was tempted that’s why it says he was tempted in every way like we are yet he was without sin

in what way do you mean Jesus was tempted ?.
are you saying his flesh was tempted to sin just like any ordinary man

 

[posthuman]

1 Cor. 10:9 (“testing Christ”). This reference to “testing Christ” in 10:9 (“nor put Christ to the test, as some of them did, and were destroyed by snakes”) is an allusion to Numbers 21:5-9.

Ooh!

Another proof He is God!

Paul calls it 'testing Christ' and Numbers calls it 'speaking against the LORD' - which the LORD calls 'testing Me' in Psalm 95 / Hebrews 3:8

Christ our LORD

 

[montana123]

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus had to be fully human and go through what humans go through in order to qualify to be the Savior.

He was in the flesh so He was tempted and had all the emotions of a human being.

But Jesus was always led by the Spirit so He could not sin.

Which the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And God will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

We are the same as Jesus when it comes to the flesh and that is why we will have a glorified body the same as His glorified body.

We are the same as Jesus if we are led of the Spirit for then it is no more the ways of the flesh, and we are abstaining from sin.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

A temptation is not a sin unless the person acts upon it.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

A person led of the Spirit abstaining from sin will still be tempted by the flesh.

Jesus is fully human and was tempted like all people but He could not sin for He was always led of the Spirit nothing wavering because He is God manifest in the flesh.

The temptation of the flesh does not go away when a person is led of the Spirit but it is lessened in intensity of how it pulls at the person for God will not suffer them to be tempted above what they are able and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

 

[Happy_hobnob]

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus had to be fully human and go through what humans go through in order to qualify to be the Savior.

He was in the flesh so He was tempted and had all the emotions of a human being.

But Jesus was always led by the Spirit so He could not sin.

Which the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And God will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

We are the same as Jesus when it comes to the flesh and that is why we will have a glorified body the same as His glorified body.

We are the same as Jesus if we are led of the Spirit for then it is no more the ways of the flesh, and we are abstaining from sin.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

A temptation is not a sin unless the person acts upon it.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

A person led of the Spirit abstaining from sin will still be tempted by the flesh.

Jesus is fully human and was tempted like all people but He could not sin for He was always led of the Spirit nothing wavering because He is God manifest in the flesh.

The temptation of the flesh does not go away when a person is led of the Spirit but it is lessened in intensity of how it pulls at the person for God will not suffer them to be tempted above what they are able and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

Do you understand Jesus was led into the wilderness to be tempted. and not that his flesh was tempted,

 

[Happy_hobnob]

The holy spirit knows all yes, and know in advance and knows every hair on your head. So it is not inconceivable to say that the holy spirit knew that when Jesus was led into the wilderness by the hand of the holy spirit the holy spirit knew that Satan would tempt Jesus, it is not my understanding as it is many peoples understanding that Jesus was led by the holy spirit to be tempted no no no.

 

[Cameron143]

Funny thing is that I just got done reading this chapter and ready for bed. I noticed that you posted this, so perhaps this is a blessing for you Cameron.

The Holy Spirit is spoken of in 16:11.
His ministry to the world concerning salvation is the following.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

For a person to be saved, the Holy Spirit reproves them of sin. ....Is this to make them give up sins so that God will eventually accept them when they clean up their lives? No, although some faulty translations would lead us to believe that. The real reason is because"they believe not on me."
Sounds like John 3:16,18 doesn't it?
Next of righteousness...
They are unrighteous and the Righteous One will ascend to His Father. They must believe in the righteous One because they are not righteous.
Third is Judgement. Who is judged? The prince of this world, Satan. His destiny and judgement will be theirs too unless they receive God's grace. Satan has nothing to do with Jesus and is judged. So is anyone who refuses the Righteous One and the life He offers as a gift.

I appreciate your response.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
I strongly suspect that when newbies first arrive in Heaven, they're shuttled
off to quarantine in a sort of Bible camp where they undergo intense
indoctrination to correct their mistakes, and fill in the blanks so that when
they're released into general population there won't be any debating,
disputing, and/or quarreling over the correct meaning of certain Bible
passages.

To dwell above
With the saints I love,
Oh, that will be glory!

But to dwell below
With the saints I know,
Well; that’s another story.
_

 

[Snacks]

If Jesus was not capable of sin, then the temptation in the desert was a sham. Arguing that the word should be translated "tested" is playing with semantics. If He could not fail the test, the test was meaningless.

I hold that Jesus was indeed capable of sin in His human nature. That He did not sin is the victory; He overcame sin because He did not submit to it.

This in no way implies that He inherited a sin nature from Adam; rather, He likely had the nature that Adam had prior to the fall.

Beat me to it.

 

[Dino246]

is life 'rigged' because it is impossible that God can lie?

I don't follow your question. ??

 

[Magenta]

i like ice cream, but it makes my teeth hurt.

it seems weird to think of Jesus as refraining from sin because He was afraid He'd wind up in hell if He pursued it.

That would not be a reason for Jesus, though, would it? I mean, He knows He is God en-fleshed.
All judgment has been given over to Him. He is not going to throw Himself into the Lake of Fire.

In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!

What does it mean for Jesus to say He has overcome the world? Especially if He cannot
be tempted in any way even though we are told He was like us in every way. 100% human, +.

We know He has mastery over it, stopping storms, calming seas, water to wine, lepers healed, blind see etc. He created it.

 

[Dino246]

.
I strongly suspect that when newbies first arrive in Heaven, they're shuttled
off to quarantine in a sort of Bible camp where they undergo intense
indoctrination to correct their mistakes, and fill in the blanks so that when
they're released into general population there won't be any debating,
disputing, and/or quarreling over the correct meaning of certain Bible
passages.

That sounds like the imposition of someone deeply concerned with doctrinal correctness and less concerned with right relationship.

 

[cv5]

Ooh!

Another proof He is God!

Paul calls it 'testing Christ' and Numbers calls it 'speaking against the LORD' - which the LORD calls 'testing Me' in Psalm 95 / Hebrews 3:8

Christ our LORD

Gonna have to try and remember that one, its so easy to gloss over that verse......

 

[cv5]

is Christ desiring sin in His heart - even so by force of will restraining Himself and never committing it in corporeal - equivalent to Christ having sin in Himself?

Absolutely yes....this state of the fallen heart is EXACTLY what Paul is describing in himself here.....

Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:10
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Regarding the sheep that his Father gave him as per John 10:27-29, Jesus stated:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch
them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than
all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:28-29)

It has actually been posited that the sheep are an exception. In other words;
it's been posited that the sheep of their own free will can take themselves
out of Jesus' hand. But of course they can't because God's free will trumps
the sheep's free will.

"This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose anything of
what He gave me." (John 6:39)

The posit reveals a belief that the sheep have enough strength and cunning
to overpower their shepherd and run off.

Were the good shepherd an ordinary guy then I would be inclined to agree
with the posit that his sheep might get past him and run off. But Christ has
all the powers of God at his disposal to keep the sheep right where he wants
them. He displayed a sampling of those powers by means of the variety of
miracles he performed when he was here.

Surely no one in a right mind would dare to suggest that sheep have
sufficient powers and abilities of their own at their disposal to overcome
Christ. Were that the case, the sheep would have no need of his services;
the sheep could shepherd themselves.

But even were the sheep to somehow manage to escape their shepherd's
hand, they would still have his Father's hand to contend with; and good luck
getting away from Almighty God!

Now, seeing as how the good shepherd has all the powers of the supreme
being at his disposal to keep the sheep right where he wants them, then it
shouldn't take too much more to persuade the sheep that it's okay to fully
trust in this next statement of his.

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved." (John 10:9)

Were Christ a so-so shepherd; then he wouldn't dare say "will be" saved;
no, he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That would leave
him some room for error. But when Christ says "will be" he's claiming a
0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose nothing of
what his Father has given him.
_

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It says He had finished His 40 day fast. it is not sin to eat food.

the meaning of this event does not become absurd if we understand Him to be tested in the wilderness instead of tempted - given our english-language connotations of those two english-language words.

in fact it becomes clearer that He is fulfilling the sign of Him in the Exodus, how that Israel was brought out of Egypt (("out of Egypt I have called My Son")) and tested also in the wilderness for 40 years. they were found lacking but He is not - and did God tempt them? He tempts no one; He tests the hearts.

and after 40 years, they entered the land, confronting their enemy and the idolatry of that place, instructed to cleanse it and dwell in it. Christ out Lord has victory where Israel, a typological and anti-typological shadow of Him, stumbles. for all these things that were written are written to testify of Him, Him Who saves by His righteousness and mercy.

“if we understand Him to be tested in the wilderness instead of tempted -

tested instead of tempted ? That’s what temptation is a test of one’s faith

“My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s like some will say “ jesusnis fully God “but also say “ Jesus was never really fully a man “

temptation is just temptation the exact same word is used talking about Jesus being “ tested “ as isnised for anyone being “ tested “ the temptation is a test of a persons faith it was for Adam was for Jesus and is for us

a there’s no reason for us to add to what’s already there didnjesus feel human feelings ? And was it a struggle for him to complete his work on earth ? Or was he like a robot the temptation was just for show and Jesus really wasn’t actually tested because Jesus never really felt tempted ?

None of that is biblical is the thing scripture at no point tells us “ Jesus was tempted but not really though “ it just says he endured all the same points of temptation we do and never sinned like we do “

It just says this

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He was tempted like we are and yet he didn’t sin. For us to then say “ no no he was never actually tempted like we are “ is not ever something scripture says it says the opposite that he came to be one of us and was touched just like we are with infirmity and temptation and yet he never sinned like we all have

this is about Jesus time he spent in the flesh also

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; ( temptations ) and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see what that’s saying ? Jesus had to become a real man and face everything man faces in the flesh he had to overcome it without sin like he did in order to be our high priest and intercede for sinners a man had to live and die without sin

“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If you guys want to change the word tempted to tested that’s fine lol temptation is a test of one’s faith it’s not a different word for Jesus and us he endures temptations like we do and he never sinned he’s able to help us when we are tempted because he also went through the experience like it clearly and plainly and basically says there


when we won’t hear things we miss important concepts plainly stated for us

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; ( he was touched with them ) but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

…in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”

if we read this

“was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”

and say” well he was tested he was never tempted like we are “ we’re disabling our ability to learn the concept bieng taught about our high priest and intercessor Jesus Christ

“so if we want to say Jesus was tested on every way like we are “ it doesn’t change anything for me the Bible just uses the word temptation instead of “ having your faith tested “

either way just like temptation comes to us , it came to him and I like us who fall to temptation and commit sin he never did that he lived a holy and perfect life facing every obstacle and snare we do carrying the same infirmity of flesh we do

a personally I think if Christian’s would just stick to the scripture and what it says there would be any controversies about whatever subject we touch on it’s when we read somethin band feel like we need to re explain it so it means something else

Jesus lfe in the flesh was a hard struggle to live right and complete his mission but he did it because he loves us

 

[Nehemiah6]

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Did everyone notice that Pilgrimshope failed to enlarge and embolden the most critical phrase -- YET WITHOUT SIN ? And that is the key. It means that Christ did not have the sin nature which would respond to any temptation. That is why Hebrews also says that Christ was SEPARATE FROM SINNERS. So Pligrimshope has "another Jesus" who had to "struggle" with sin because He was on the brink of being tempted to sin. Christians should flatly reject such nonsensical ideas. Imagine God trying to "struggle" with sin!

To be "touched with the feelings of our infirmities" means to understand that humans have to struggle with sinful temptations and may succumb to them because the flesh is weak. But this struggle certainly did not apply to Christ.