The Impeccability of Our Lord Jesus Christ

[Pilgrimshope]

I find it odd that people use the word "semantics" as if it is a dirty word that usually means word trickery or word games. We MUST use semantics in determining the meaning of texts-

se·man·tics
[səˈman(t)iks]
NOUN
the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.
the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text:
"such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"

The Greek used for "tempted" in Hebrews 4:15 is as follows in the Strong's -

πειράζω
peirazō
pi-rad'-zo
From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.
Total KJV occurrences: 39

From the BDAG -

"of God or Christ, who put people to the test, in a favorable sense (Ps.-Apollod. 3, 7; 7, 4 Zeus puts τὴν ἀσέβειαν of certain people to the test), so that they may prove themselves true J 6:6; Hb 11:17 (Abraham, as Gen 22:1). Also of painful trials sent by God (Ex 20:20; Dt 8:2 v.l.; Judg 2:22; Wsd 3:5; 11:9; Jdth 8:25f) 1 Cor 10:13; Hb 2:18ab; 4:15 (s. πειράω); 11:37 v.l.; Rv 3:10 (SBrown, JBL 85, ’66, 308–14 π.=afflict). Likew. of the measures taken by the angel of repentance Hs 7:1."

Translated in some manner of trial or testing is the use of the word in: ABP, ROTHERHAM'S EMPHASIZED BIBLE, NRSV, REB, BBE, HCSB, NLT

“I find it odd that people use the word "semantics" as if it is a dirty word that usually means word trickery or word games.”

well yeah that’s what it is when you read a scripture that says something plain and then you reject it and explain another statement that’s contrary

aid your interpretation means you can’t accept what is plain it’s an issue in you not with the scripture

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

was Jesus led into the wilderness in order to be tempted of the devil or not ? It doesn’t take any rewording lol it takes the ability to understand “ wow I don’t already understand everything , I could still learn a new thing from the Bible if don’t reject it “

You guys are missing just basic things lain statements because you invent all the semantics to avoid the plain things meant to learn

“And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. ( this is the point that he is tempted because his flesh is craving food but hes fasting , this is the temptation to break his fast ) And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus didn’t really feel hungry though so he wasn’t tempted with the thought of food lol ?

if Jesus broke his fast it would have been a disobedience to God , he was very hungry Satan exploited that to tempt him

Its just basic understanding I’m not sure how anyone could ever come to the conclusion Jesus couldn’t be tempted when the Bible repeatedly tells us he was and he never sinned and explains the whys of it as well

But honestly it doesn’t impact me at all what you choose to believe , it’s like arguing over w basic fundamental point that isn’t ambiguous or mysterious it’s plain for anyone willing to hear it

was Jesus tempted ? Yeah the Bible says alot about it actually and explains why he was tempted and how that benefits us in having a high oreoct who can relate to what it’s like feeling the pull of temptation and can strengthen us to overcome it like he did

 

[Nehemiah6]

Interesting. So you think the writer of Hebrews made a mistake, and you know better?

Not the writer of Hebrews. Only those who cannot understand what the writer of Hebrews was actually telling us.

 

[IsaiahA]

You really should read, rather than reading in.

"This in no way implies that He inherited a sin nature from Adam; rather, He likely had the nature that Adam had prior to the fall."

I read nothing 'into' you words. Did you not write what I have quoted?

So, Jesus had the same nature as Adam did before the fall? Is Jesus God? Is Jesus the creator? If Jesus is God and he created Adam, you are saying Adam had the same nature as God before the fall. That is what you wrote. Again, is Jesus God? If so, now can he be tempted rather than tested?

"Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;" (Jas 1:13 RSV)

Robertson's Word Pictures on Hebrews 4:15 -

"Without sin (χωρις αμαρτιας). This is the outstanding difference that must never be overlooked in considering the actual humanity of Jesus. He did not yield to sin. But more than this is true. There was no latent sin in Jesus to be stirred by temptation and no habits of sin to be overcome. But he did have "weaknesses" (ασθενεια) common to our human nature (hunger, thirst, weariness, etc.). Satan used his strongest weapons against Jesus, did it repeatedly, and failed. Jesus remained "undefiled" (αμιαντος) in a world of sin (Joh 8:46). This is our ground of hope, the sinlessness of Jesus and his real sympathy."

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus had to be tempted like we are in order to be a man and overcome sin

Where does the Bible says that Jesus OVERCAME sin? That is just nonsense. Indeed, He asked His enemies "Which of you accuses me of sin?" And He told the devil to beat it.

Satan imagined that he could tempt Christ. So he presented the three major temptations. And Christ simply knocked them down with Scripture. This would be similar to you having an aversion to ice cream. No matter how many flavors were presented, you would simply ignore them, because you hate ice cream (as an example). And since Christ hates sin and iniquity, He could not be tempted.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Where does the Bible says that Jesus OVERCAME sin? That is just nonsense. Indeed, He asked His enemies "Which of you accuses me of sin?" And He told the devil to beat it.

Satan imagined that he could tempt Christ. So he presented the three major temptations. And Christ simply knocked them down with Scripture. This would be similar to you having an aversion to ice cream. No matter how many flavors were presented, you would simply ignore them, because you hate ice cream (as an example). And since Christ hates sin and iniquity, He could not be tempted.

yeah I don’t know really what to say to you man your not willing to learn anything from scripture you seem to have that issue of you think something that’s just the gospel even when you see scriptures saying the opposite a

was jesus led into the desert to be tempted of the devil ? Yes

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your response nope “that’s ridiculous the words aren’t real “

Was Jesus tempted at every point like we are ? Yes

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;

but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:14-15‬

You’re response “that’s ridiculous jesus was never tempted like we are he can’t be touched with our infirmities he was beyond it all in his flesh “

Its not really a good use of time for me brother arguing with you about what’s not really a debate and is plainly stated numerous times , if you don’t want to believe what’s plainly written I’m sorry about that.

But your opinion anytime it’s the opposite of things plainly stated repeatedly is always going to be wrong until you line up with what’s ac try ally written down so we can all learn and know it

There’s no temptation you will ever face in your entire life that is foreign to jesus he’s already overcame whatever temptation you might imagine through his flesh the exact same way we do.

You aren’t allowing for this to be true

“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your response that’s just heresy Jesus was never tempted

Brother often I like what you have to say sometimes though it becomes apparent that you need to consider if you’re humble enough to learn what’s plainly there and not always look for a secret interpretation it’s not needed the New Testament is the explaination we just need to learn what it says and believe it


The temptation of Jesus in his flesh is important understsnding but it isn’t my place to force you to believe what’s so plainly written so I think I’ll move on to a different topic I’ll just be repeating th same things at this point and showing you the same scriptures and you’ll be saying the same things to avoid them

 

[Dino246]

"This in no way implies that He inherited a sin nature from Adam; rather, He likely had the nature that Adam had prior to the fall."

I read nothing 'into' you words. Did you not write what I have quoted?

So, Jesus had the same nature as Adam did before the fall? Is Jesus God? Is Jesus the creator? If Jesus is God and he created Adam, you are saying Adam had the same nature as God before the fall. That is what you wrote. Again, is Jesus God? If so, now can he be tempted rather than tested?

Do you understand that Jesus has two natures: divine and human? Did I say that Jesus’ divine nature is like Adam’s human nature? Don’t be daft, and don’t look for the worst possible interpretation of my words to justify your disagreement.

 

[Blade]

Reminds me of that song "that's my God by Dr. S.M. Lockridge". if you add youtube com to \watch?v=DRhcAZYHCoU that's the one I like. I just didn't want to high jack. Sorry if I did.. Just "Impeccability of Our Lord Jesus Christ" reminded of this video.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Do you understand that Jesus has two natures: divine and human? Did I say that Jesus’ divine nature is like Adam’s human nature? Don’t be daft, and don’t look for the worst possible interpretation of my words to justify your disagreement.

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When Adam was tempted he went with it , when Jesus was tempted he went with God

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: ( not because we’re tempted are we not pure but because we yield to temptation and sin )

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus did have the original natire of man free from sin but in a world where temptation exists both Adam and jesus we’re tempted only Adam sinned jesus never did. in the same way those born of Adam ( all mankind ) became sinners those born of Christ inherit his nature man’s true nature before we sinned and become righteous men and women

 

[Webers.Home]

.
The so-called fallen nature is believed to be propagated by parents; in
particular the fathers. Oh? Then whence did Eve obtain it?

She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's
body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
the woman was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass
the fallen nature to her by means of reproduction.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I
seriously doubt it because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she
did, nothing happened. She remained just as shameless in the buff as
before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to feel exposed; so
I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more serious than the
chemistry of that fruit.

FAQ: If Eve's altered moral perception wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to
the material taken from Adam's body to construct her; then what?

REPLY: Mr. Serpent is the logical source, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) He has
the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16,
Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and the woman both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she
tasted the forbidden fruit?

REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come
into the world, they would come via a lone male's actions just as life and
righteousness would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions.
(Rom 5:12-21)

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but
I'm guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

Anyone familiar with the deplorable behavior of some of the folks in Jesus'
genealogy would have to agree that if anybody was to come into this world
with the so called fallen nature it would surely have to be him. But he didn't
because keeping Jesus free of the fallen nature was just a simple matter of
keeping the Devil's paws off him.

FAQ: No fair! Why are the rest of us allowed to be tampered by the Devil
and not him?

REPLY: God didn't need all of us to be crucified; just the one was enough
for everybody: but of course that one had to be unique.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

.
FAQ: Can God sin?

REPLY: No.

● Ps 11:7 . . Jehovah is righteous

● Ps 145:17 . . Jehovah is righteous in all his ways and loyal in all his works.

● Jas 1:13 . . With evil things God cannot be tried

So then if the Son of God is really and truly God's progeny per John 1:14,
John 3:16, John 3:18, and 1John 4:9, then he can neither sin nor be
tempted with evil because if the righteous God were to reproduce, His
offspring would be righteous; and in point of fact, the Bible says as much.

● 1John 3:9 . . Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin,
because His reproductive seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice
sin, because he has been born from God.

FAQ: Can God lie?

REPLY: No.

● Titus 1:2 . . God, who cannot lie

● Heb 6:18 . . it is impossible for God to lie

So then, if the Son of God is really and truly God's progeny per John 1:14
John 3:16, John 3:18, and 1John 4:9, then neither can he lie because if the
honest God were to reproduce, His offspring would be honest; and in point
of fact, the Bible says as much.

● 1John 3:9 . . Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin,
because His reproductive seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice
sin, because he has been born from God.

I read in an old JW magazine sometime around 1969 and 1970 (either the
Watchtower or Awake. I can't remember which) that Jesus could've failed,
he could've sinned. But considering his genetics, so to speak, I really don't
think he was 100% innocent due to personal resolve, rather, due to the
divine nature he inherited from his Father.

● Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells
bodily.

The Greek word translated "divine quality" is theóteetos which means:
divinity

Seeing as how theóteetos is modified by the Greek definite article teés then
what we're looking at here in Col 2:9 isn't nondescript divinity, rather "the"
divinity. In other words: we're looking at all the fullness of Jehovah's
divinity. So then Jesus' superb attributes aren't merely like God's, they are
God's. Is it any mystery then how he was so successful?
_

 

[IsaiahA]

Reading those denying the impeccability of Jesus Christ, I'm beginning to think a lot of the objections are coming from the heresy of Kenosis. They are pulling Jesus Christ down to our level as if he was no longer fully God. The first time I ever encountered this in person was with a Pentecostal co-worker who was taught this in a Bible school. You can read some on it here: https://www.theopedia.com/kenosis

This co-worker believed the Son of God so emptied himself of his Divinity that he was doing the miracles by the indwelling Spirit; and those with the baptism of the Holy Spirit can be and live like Jesus did.

That is how I understand Dino's statement that he saw Jesus as being like Adam prior to the fall. To me that is taking away his being fully God, which is heresy.

Joseph Benson, Methodist, on Heb. 4:15 "but was in all points tempted That is, tried; like as we are Καθ ’ ομοιοτητα , according to a similitude of our trials, or with such as belong to human nature. What is here said of the similarity of our Lord’s trials to ours, does not imply an exact likeness; for he was free from that corruption of nature which, as the consequence of Adam’s sin, has infected all mankind; which is intimated likewise in the expression, (Romans 8:3,) sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh; yet without sin For he never committed any; and is able to preserve us in all our temptations from the commission of it."

 

[Nehemiah6]

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Your response nope “that’s ridiculous the words aren’t real “ Was Jesus tempted at every point like we are ? Yes

I have never denied that Satan (in his ignorance) actually did try to tempt Christ. And he also used the three basic temptations to which humans are subject. But what I have maintained is that THERE WAS NOTHING WITHIN CHRIST to respond to those temptations. Why? Because Jesus is fully God and also fully sinless Man. He could not be tempted, though Satan foolishly imagined that He could. And the Holy Spirit took Christ into the wilderness to face the devil so that the whole world could understand that Christ was BEYOND any temptation.

As I already pointed out in another post, if someone hates ice cream (for example) you could present him with 100 different flavors, and he would reject them all. Christ hates sin and iniquity so no temptation could affect him. As we can see in Matthew 4, Jesus did not have to "struggle" with any temptation. He had an immediate and appropriate response from Scripture to every one of those temptations. Case closed.

Also, the lesson here is because Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit, they too can resist all temptations in the power of the Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

What do you guys make of John 14:30?

...for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me...

 

[Magenta]

What do you guys make of John 14:30?

...for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me...

John 12:31-32

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have never denied that Satan (in his ignorance) actually did try to tempt Christ. And he also used the three basic temptations to which humans are subject. But what I have maintained is that THERE WAS NOTHING WITHIN CHRIST to respond to those temptations. Why? Because Jesus is fully God and also fully sinless Man. He could not be tempted, though Satan foolishly imagined that He could. And the Holy Spirit took Christ into the wilderness to face the devil so that the whole world could understand that Christ was BEYOND any temptation.

As I already pointed out in another post, if someone hates ice cream (for example) you could present him with 100 different flavors, and he would reject them all. Christ hates sin and iniquity so no temptation could affect him. As we can see in Matthew 4, Jesus did not have to "struggle" with any temptation. He had an immediate and appropriate response from Scripture to every one of those temptations. Case closed.

Also, the lesson here is because Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit, they too can resist all temptations in the power of the Spirit.

I don't know brother really what to say except that everyone both myself and you can see things differently at times but I don't really think I should bother re stating my case and will let what you said there be the last word respectfully

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

What do you guys make of John 14:30?

...for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me...

Funny thing is that I just got done reading this chapter and ready for bed. I noticed that you posted this, so perhaps this is a blessing for you Cameron.

The Holy Spirit is spoken of in 16:11.
His ministry to the world concerning salvation is the following.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

For a person to be saved, the Holy Spirit reproves them of sin. ....Is this to make them give up sins so that God will eventually accept them when they clean up their lives? No, although some faulty translations would lead us to believe that. The real reason is because"they believe not on me."
Sounds like John 3:16,18 doesn't it?
Next of righteousness...
They are unrighteous and the Righteous One will ascend to His Father. They must believe in the righteous One because they are not righteous.
Third is Judgement. Who is judged? The prince of this world, Satan. His destiny and judgement will be theirs too unless they receive God's grace. Satan has nothing to do with Jesus and is judged. So is anyone who refuses the Righteous One and the life He offers as a gift.

 

[williamjordan]

You can be tempted externally, or internally. “Internally,” meaning you have desires that can cause you to succumb to temptation. For example, if you’re a single man that struggles with intimacy, a woman comes before you, and she tempts you – that’s “external.” But now you have desires for her — that’s “internal.” She’s tempting you externally, and you begin getting tempted internally and you succumb. In the OT many people tempt God, but because God is God — upright and holy — there is nothing inside Him that would cause Him to desire those temptations and succumb/fall to them. Any time a creature does something against God’s will and does something that grieves and angers God — that’s tempting God.

The question raised in 1 Corinthians 10:21-22 (“Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy?”) is an allusion to the Song of Moses (Deut. 32:21, “They have provoked me to jealousy with what is no god”), the very place Paul alludes to (cf. Deut. 32:4, 15, 18, 31) when he speaks of Christ as “the Rock” (1 Cor. 10:4). Further, Paul’s utilization of δαιμόνιον (“demon”) in 10:20-21 (“…they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons”) directly alludes to Deut. 32:17 LXX (“They sacrificed to devils and not to God; to gods whom they knew not…”). And of course, Paul’s reference in 10:20-21 to “the Lord” (1 Cor. 10:22) is a reference to Jesus. The “cup of the Lord” and “table of the Lord” are a reference to the Lord’s Supper (cf. 1 Cor. 11:27-28, 10:16-17). There is an interesting parallel found in Malachi 1:7-12, where the expression—“the table of the Lord”—is used for the altar which the prophet Malachi warned against defiling, something the Corinthians were also warned against by Paul. In addition, there is a referential connection being made between 1 Cor. 10:22 (“provoking the Lord”) and 1 Cor. 10:9 (“testing Christ”). This reference to “testing Christ” in 10:9 (“nor put Christ to the test, as some of them did, and were destroyed by snakes”) is an allusion to Numbers 21:5-9. Paul alludes to the OT a number of times throughout the discourse (many of which I have not even mentioned), but the point I’m building on is that 1 Cor. 10:4–22 is gushing from the seams with allusions from the Pentateuchal narratives, specifically those regarding idolatry.

Whereas Deut. 32 is an illustration of the Israelites tempting YHWH in the OT. Yet, Paul uses Deut. 32 in his illustration of tempting Christ. There is a connection between "provoking the Lord" (1 Cor 10:22), and "testing Christ" (1 Cor. 10:9).

 

[posthuman]

If He could not fail the test, the test was meaningless.

is life 'rigged' because it is impossible that God can lie?

 

[posthuman]

And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. ( this is the point that he is tempted because his flesh is craving food but hes fasting , this is the temptation to break his fast )

It says He had finished His 40 day fast. it is not sin to eat food.

the meaning of this event does not become absurd if we understand Him to be tested in the wilderness instead of tempted - given our english-language connotations of those two english-language words.

in fact it becomes clearer that He is fulfilling the sign of Him in the Exodus, how that Israel was brought out of Egypt (("out of Egypt I have called My Son")) and tested also in the wilderness for 40 years. they were found lacking but He is not - and did God tempt them? He tempts no one; He tests the hearts.

and after 40 years, they entered the land, confronting their enemy and the idolatry of that place, instructed to cleanse it and dwell in it. Christ out Lord has victory where Israel, a typological and anti-typological shadow of Him, stumbles. for all these things that were written are written to testify of Him, Him Who saves by His righteousness and mercy.

 

[posthuman]

if Jesus broke his fast it would have been a disobedience to God

even tho the text says this is after 40 days, was a 40 day fast commanded?

in the law there are feast days - not fastings, with the possible exception of one day - the day of atonement - in which it commands the people to 'afflict their souls' ((Leviticus 16:29-31))
tradition calls this an idiom for fasting, but there is a perfectly good Hebrew word that literally means fasting, which God conspicuously chose not to use there.

i am reminded of Proverb 14:13, “even in laughter the heart may ache" and i think, even in feasting there may be affliction.