Need some clarity, please...

CharliRenee · Mar 11, 2023

Let me preface this by saying....I am a simple gal, so please keep it simple, lol.

Seriously, not self-deprecating just...well enough of that.

Here is my question.

I am seeing in 1 Samuel about the harmful spirit from the Lord...

Can you help explain what you believe this means.

Is this to say, God used the evil forces of the world for His purposes

Or does this go along with verses like this..

I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 ESV

Would appreciate your insight.

I believe God is 100% Good, so how can there be a harmful spirit from God? However, perhaps my idea of good is skewed. I don't know.

Thanks for your time and insight.

May God's Blessings be upon you and yours..♡

Magenta · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

It brings the book of Job to mind, where God allowed Satan access to Job's possessions, including his family.

Lanolin · Mar 11, 2023

All things work together for the good of those who love God...

I think harmful spirits can be sent by the Lord to test our love for Him perhaps? Jesus knew Satan was in Judas, and also was sometimes in Peter but he knew what was going to happen and it all worked out in the end.

What passage in 1 Samuel are you referring to?

Magenta · Mar 11, 2023

Lanolin said:

After the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, a spirit of distress from the LORD began to torment him.
1 Samuel 16:14

New International Version
Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

New Living Translation
Now the Spirit of the LORD had left Saul, and the LORD sent a tormenting spirit that filled him with depression and fear.

English Standard Version
Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.

King James Bible
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

New King James Version
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him.

New American Standard Bible
Now the Spirit of the LORD left Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrified him.

Lanolin · Mar 11, 2023

hmm ok
Saul had done something that made the spirit of the Lord depart (the Holy Spirit can be grieved) and when the Holy Spirit departs another spirit come to trouble him. Otherwise Saul would have no spirit? i.e he would be dead.

The thing with Saul was he disobeyed the Lord and that has serious consequences, cos he was initially chosen to be Israels first King.

Karlon · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

Read Romans 8:28, "and we know ALL things work together for good......" i know doctors who are atheists & God uses them for good. But also, the O.T. was written in the language of Hebrew, the N.T., in Greek. so proper translation must be understood. there is absolutely NO harmful spirit in God. For example, in the O.T., the word "terrible" meant something great. today, we use the word to mean "awful".

Evmur · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

Let me preface this by saying....I am a simple gal, so please keep it simple, lol.

Seriously, not self-deprecating just...well enough of that.

Here is my question.

I am seeing in 1 Samuel about the harmful spirit from the Lord...

Can you help explain what you believe this means.

Is this to say, God used the evil forces of the world for His purposes

Or does this go along with verses like this..

I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 ESV

Would appreciate your insight.

I believe God is 100% Good, so how can there be a harmful spirit from God? However, perhaps my idea of good is skewed. I don't know.

Thanks for your time and insight.

May God's Blessings be upon you and yours..♡

There are things difficult to understand ... we have to simply trust the Lord

Pilgrimshope · Mar 11, 2023

[/QUOTE]

“I believe God is 100% Good, so how can there be a harmful spirit from God?”

I agree with you that God is good always

if you think of it like this ( just my own opinion and some scriptures )

If you start saying God is the source of all things that exist and he created the men and creatures and angels were created by the lord then in some way any evil they ever do , traces back to him creating them. If man becomes wicked because they are deceived by another creature he created , God may look at it like he’s caused it and then a terrible act may come to solve the regret of what he’s done what I mean is like this

God does good and no evil

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He created mankind and all creation and everything was good

later things have changed not by Gods good and holt Will but through mans newly corrupt will (good and evil ) and the situation provoked a response from God because of mans evil towards one another and corrupting his very good creation with evil

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

(This causes )And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure this helps but this review again and again in the Bible God blesses man and gives them a covenant they can live by and be his chosen people , they break his words of the covenant and it provokes repentance and destruction.

what I mean to say is my opinion of that same dilemma you have is that evil is always first provoked and warranted by the actions of man

“For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭11:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭32:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe any evil begins with man , creatures and angels and because God is the source of all of us evil by it’s nature provokes holiness to righteous anger in Gods case wrath which is where the evil he does is always coming from his wrath the source of hell really

G00WZ · Mar 11, 2023

The understanding is that God Himself is purpose regardless of whatever shape or form He comes in and to understand that He is ultimately behind it all minus the ego/pride, false gods and illusions of whatever it is you think you're serving. Even the devil, the concepts of darkness and void has no purpose of his own beyond the purpose of God. The devil/darkness exists to serve God and to show you where God isn't for the specific reason to cause death destruction and calamaty, so even in His absence His purpose still stands and will be served.

Hope this answers some of your question.

MessengerofTruth · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

I think you are on point with your observation in the scripture you cited.

I hear songs and preaching that seems to suggest that GOD is only love and goodness.

I believe as we grow in our understanding and knowledge of Him, we see there is another side of GOD that is no less holy.

This is why we that know Him, reverence Him, knowing that His judgements are to be feared and desire to keep ourselves in the love of GOD.

I look at that story as a serious warning not to trifle with God or to take His Word as debatable.

Walter · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

Hello CharliRenee, In my case, Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Realizing that, to always, when a person is overcome by evil, if possible with good.

Love, Walter and Debbie

Nehemiah6 · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

The important thing to keep in mind is that God is sovereign over all creation and over all creatures. He knows that there are evil spirits in the world. And He can cause an evil spirit to do His bidding, just as He was in full control of Satan when Satan wanted to attack Job. So God sent Satan indirectly against Job, just as He sent an evil spirit against Saul. And in the the future it is God who will release all those demons from the bottomless pit in order to bring judgment upn the evil and the ungodly (as noted in the book of Revelation).

studentoftheword · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

I say --you need to go back to ! Samuel 15 to understand that Saul was disobeying God and so God was about to withdraw Saul from being King and replace Him ----Saul was given God"s Spirit to be King ---Saul was anointed by God to do what God wanted Him to do and gave Saul His Blessings --but Saul was decided to disobey God --and God has every right to withdraw His blessings that he gives -----your dealing in the Old Testament Here and God Dealt directly with the people Himself in the OT

! Samuel 15 ----ERV

Samuel Tells Saul About His Sin
10 Then Samuel received this message from the Lord: 11 “Saul has stopped following me, so I am sorry that I made him king. He is not doing what I tell him.

I say -------So when you disobey God ----there are consequences -----and so God withdrew His Spirit from Saul and allowed Satan himself or some of his tribe to harass Saul -----

So what did Saul Do ----verse 12 -
12 Samuel got up early the next morning and went to meet Saul. But the people told Samuel, “Saul went to Carmel. He went there to set up a stone monument to honor himself. Then he left there and went down to Gilgal.”

Samuel broke the 4th Commandment ------

4You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath.

So God in His Righteous Judgment -----gave him over to Satan as Saul seemed to be possessed by his evil ways ---

Saul had experienced God's goodness and rejected it -----so He allowed Saul to wallow in his evil ways with the god of evil ------

We are in a Spiritual war every day and it is all about soul winning ----who will win your soul today ---

You win or loose the Spiritual Battle of the Mind ---Saul experienced Goodness then allowed evil to penetrate his mind ---and dominate him -----

CorrectiveLens · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

Hi CharliRenee. The Lord's plan was for David to leave tending sheep and attend the court of the king. The evil spirit that God sent was to trouble Saul ( depression, anxiety, etc ), not necessarily cause him to do evil. He did that on his own. David was summoned to play the harp for the king in order to soothe Saul (for the king was troubled). After David played the harp for king Saul, the evil spirit departed ( 1 Samuel 16: 23). It was all in God's plan.

ISHAH · Mar 11, 2023

CharliRenee said:

Hey there CharliRenee,
When the spirit of Ishi was with King Saul, he walked in the Power and Might of Ishi. Saul fought wars against armies that were greater and mightier than himself in appearance because of the Power of the Spirit of Ishi that was within him. That had to be the most amazing experience ever! This type of experience is also a privilege.

When Saul proved himself to be disobedient to Ishi, Ishi removed the comfort of His spirit from Saul and placed a spirit upon Saul that made Saul feel very uncomfortable. He made Saul not able to stand before his enemies on his own. That had to be very frightening for a king that was continuously in battle.

Nevertheless, Ishi placed His mighty spirit within David to be the protector of Israel. David would then later take his place as king of Israel.

Here is another reference of the word "evil" being used in the scripture to describe figs:

Jeremiah 24:2-3 King James Version

2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.
3 Then said the Lord unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

Do you see in this scripture of Jeremiah, how the context of the word evil is not referring to the devil himself or devils?

You can also take a look at 2 Samuel chapter 22 (One of my faves'. That's my Jam!) and see how King David describes walking in the assurance of the Might of Ishi, it is Absolutely Amazing!

By the way, Ishi is God's name. See Hosea 2:16 KJV for that reference.

Love You Evermore!

Ishah

Pilgrimshope · Mar 11, 2023

Walter said:

amen

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The darkness and light being separated is part of the new testament also

first the natural

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then the spiritual

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He was in the world,( the light shines in darkness ) and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. ( darkness comprehended not )

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The_Watchers_2017 · Mar 12, 2023

In the Books of Chronicles and Kings, it's mentioned twice, but God is on His Throne and ALL AS IN ALL of Heaven are present [both good and fallen angels] and God asks, "Who will be a lying spirit and deceive a king of Israel that God was getting rid of.

But clearly a very evil spirit fallen angel comes forward and tells God he would do that for God.

So here we have a direct discussion between God and both good and fallen angels and God uses the skills of one fallen angel to do His Will.

Dino246 · Mar 12, 2023

Karlon said:

"No harmful spirit in God" is different from "no harmful spirit from God".

God has his purposes, which are beyond our understanding, and He occasionally uses means which might clash with our ideas of His nature. Just as He allows the negative consequences of our choices to occur in the natural world, He allows things in the spiritual world in a similar way. We don't need to redefine terms in order to make things fit in our theological boxes.

In 1 Kings 22, God consults the heavenly council regarding the means of Ahab's demise...

19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’

22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.

“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.

“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’

23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

Dino246 · Mar 12, 2023

CharliRenee said:

God indeed uses evil forces for His purposes. Saul's situation is very different from Ahab's (previous post); Saul was the choice of the people and was not a terrible king, just a foolish one. However, the spirit that God sent to torment him prompted him to attempt to murder David in his jealousy. God protected David for His own purposes.

CharliRenee · Mar 12, 2023

Thanks for your time and input all, much appreciated and helpful....

♡

Need some clarity, please...

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