Salvation is for the Whole World

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Sipsey

Well-known member
#461
Sep 27, 2018
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#461
rogerg said:
Accepting the gift is not but trying to invoke or lay claim to it BY your accepting of it, is. Anything
that must be done by someone to get it, makes it into a work regardless of how little or how much is required.
The Bible describes it not only as a gift, but as a free gift. That means it is PLACED into one's possession by God
with the intervention or action of man neither necessary nor possible.
You are desirous to take the title of Saviour away from Christ and place it upon yourself.
It's not complicated.
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Is it possible to be presented with an exquisite, no strings attached gift of infinite value, whose only requisite is that you open it?

The best advise in the world is worthless, unless one has faith in its wisdom, changes course (repentance), and applies it to their thinking and actions.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#462
Sep 23, 2014
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#462
ForestGreenCook said:
If you are not acknowledging that the scriptures teach that there are two distinctive worlds, then you would have to say that the following scriptures are teaching that God "so loved the following world:

John 15:18-19 - If the world hat you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but ye are not of the world, but I have chosen ye out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, do you inquire among yourselves, of that I said, a little while, and ye shall not see me; and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, Verily, I say unto you, that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

John 17:9 - I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me

John 17:14 - I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world,

James 4:4 - Know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore shall be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
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This does not show that Jesus hated the world. It only suggests that He hates those that hate Him, and that goes against His own instruction to love those that hate you.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#463
Sep 23, 2014
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#463
CorrectiveLens said:
Col 1:15-16 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions, or principalities, or powers--all things were created by Him, and for Him.
Christ's existence emanated from the Father's essence from which all things exist. Christ is the first living spiritual being that came from the Father. That is why He is the Father's Son. Just like the Father, Christ has His own mind, heart, and soul. Because the Father's essence completely fills Christ's being, Christ, with His free will, chooses to love and obey Him. That is why He sits at the Father's right hand (to do the Father's will). The Father communicates His will to the Son through His essence (the Holy Spirit).
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The nomenclature of "firstborn" is a phraseology that connotes a child that opens the womb so Jesus qualifies as the first-born of Mary but He is also first to open the tomb whose application can be applied even retroactively in the raising of Lazarus, i.e. Jesus telling his sister "I am the resurrection." Jesus did not need to be 'called forth' from the tomb as is the case for Lazarus.

You state "The Father communicates His will to the Son through His essence (the Holy Spirit)." Doesn't the Holy Spirit emanate from the Father? Is He His Son as well? Isn't Jesus the Father's essence, the exact impression of God's reality/assurance.?
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#464
Jul 13, 2021
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#464
Sipsey said:
Is it possible to be presented with an exquisite, no strings attached gift of infinite value, whose only requisite is that you open it?

The best advise in the world is worthless, unless one has faith in its wisdom, changes course (repentance), and applies it to their thinking and actions.
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No, it is not possible of "opening it" in order to have it. A spiritually dead person cannot give to themselves spiritual life any more than physically dead person can give to themselves physical life because they are oblivious to the fact that they are dead.

We are told that it is God who must first place within us a new heart and a new spirit. The verses that tell us that, leaves no
room for man's participation in it for acquiring it, but only of God - no conditions are mentioned other than of God who WILL do it.
The things you mention above do happen, but as a byproduct of salvation through the Holy Spirit, not as a cause of salvation.
Notice in the below verse that God says "I will" and does not say "we will", nor that "you must".

[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#465
Jul 8, 2018
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#465
rogerg said:
The Comforter was not yet given to them from whom is faith received in full measure.
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The Holy Spirit is a quickening Spirit, and he also functions as a comforter. The old testament saints were quickened with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the same manner that we are in this present time. (Isaiah 63:11)
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#466
Jul 13, 2021
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#466
ForestGreenCook said:
The Holy Spirit is a quickening Spirit, and he also functions as a comforter. The old testament saints were quickened with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the same manner that we are in this present time. (Isaiah 63:11)
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[Jhn 15:26-27 KJV]
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#467
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#467
oyster67 said:
Amen. Salvation has been made freely available to all who will humbly receive. The price has been paid in full.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
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Sin is not the problem, sin has been taken care of.

The only question now is LIFE

He who hath Christ hath life, he who hath not Christ hath not life.

God gives life to whom He will.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#468
Sep 23, 2014
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#468
rogerg said:
If you won't mind my two cents, I can't see how this world could possibly be the one that God "so loved". If there is truly only one world which God loves, but yet, promised to destroy it, that would mean either that God is unable to save that which He loves, or to destroy that which He hates - which would be a logical impossibility. So, two worlds must be in view - one to be destroyed and one to be eternal.
That is the only way all verses can harmonize.
If God instructs us not to love this world, then neither does He.

[1Jo 2:15-17 KJV]
15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
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It is the same world, kosmon. However,
I've come to consider hate to be a withholding of love., and the phrasing used in 1Jo2:15 comes short of saying "hate". What is found in John 3:16 that is not found in 1John 2:15 is that "God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." This leaves the option to destroy the things God so (my addition) hates, or withholds, his life sustaining love from in the world, and so it passes away.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#469
May 24, 2014
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#469
Evmur said:
God gives life to whom He will.
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God gives life to whom will come. It is God's will that all should come. The decision is up to us. He wills that all would call upon His name today.
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#474
Jul 13, 2021
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#474
Mem said:
It is the same world, kosmon. However,
I've come to consider hate to be a withholding of love., and the phrasing used in 1Jo2:15 comes short of saying "hate". What is found in John 3:16 that is not found in 1John 2:15 is that "God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." This leaves the option to destroy the things God so (my addition) hates, or withholds, his life sustaining love from in the world, and so it passes away.
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Well, call it what you will, but nevertheless, this current world is to be destroyed and replaced by an entirely new one.
So, the world to come, the eternal one, must be the one God so loved

[Mar 13:31 KJV] 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
[Luk 21:33 KJV] 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
[2Pe 3:10 KJV] 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[Isa 65:17 KJV] 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#476
Sep 23, 2014
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#476
rogerg said:
Well, call it what you will, but nevertheless, this current world is to be destroyed and replaced by an entirely new one.
So, the world to come, the eternal one, must be the one God so loved

[Mar 13:31 KJV] 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
[Luk 21:33 KJV] 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
[2Pe 3:10 KJV] 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[Isa 65:17 KJV] 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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We don't know exactly how that is going to pan out actually. For example, David prayed God create in him a new heart, and the word he used does not denote a "forming" but a creating 'out of nothing.'
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#478
Jul 8, 2018
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#478
Snacks said:
You deny the word, world, in John 3.16 means world and yet you talk to me about the need for Scripture to harmonize? 😆
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Is the world, in John 3:16, the same world that Jesus will not pray for, in John 17:9? in John 15:18-19, John 16:19-20, John 14:17, James 4:4, and many more.
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#480
Jul 13, 2021
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#480
Mem said:
We don't know exactly how that is going to pan out actually. For example, David prayed God create in him a new heart, and the word he used does not denote a "forming" but a creating 'out of nothing.'
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I guess you're seeing something in the verses (I included) which I don't, but to me, there is no wiggle room in them:
the old will be gone, and the new will replace it.

[Rev 21:1 KJV] 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 
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