Well...the good news is that I am now EVEN MORE ultra-fussy about what Church I walk into......
Saddleback Church Ousted from Southern Baptist Convention Over Female Pastor
- Thread starter 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
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A hasty retreat out of Dodge is it? OK bro. Winning by default works for me.
BTW........both you and I know that the evidence I asked for does not exist.
I have no intention nor illusion that there is a case to be won by me.
Paul and his churches, and his letters praising women in all offices in the church made the case generations ago. We are all one in Christ Jesus.
And those who oppose that and insist the church is divided because there is female, male, Greek, and Jew, are proven wrong, false, by Paul generations ago.
So really, this thread discussion that no doubt is not unique in this community is a waste of time.
Paul can't be overcome by today's prejudices. Only the gospel can overcome those.
It's the "Southern Baptist" system's loss. Warren can get along without them nicely.
So you are saying that during the history of the Church from Acts 2 to 1600 it was woefully prejudicial against women? And in the last 15 or 20 years we've "evolved" and "progressed" beyond those foolish outdated doctrinal principles?
BTW......I think you said you were amill/post-mill or historicist? I can't remember which.
The same Paul who wrote this also wrote that women at to keep silent in the churches, and they are not to teach or usurp authority in the churches. Was Paul contradicting himself or WAS GOD CONTRADICTING HIMSELF? Do professing Christians do not even know how to apply passages in context and discern what is being said?
1. IN THE BODY OF CHRIST THERE ARE NO DISTINCTIONS BECAUSE IT IS ONE SPIRITUAL BODY
2. IN THE HOME AND IN THE CHURCH MEN ARE TO BE IN SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP AND WOMEN ARE TO BE IN SUBJECTION
So you have no problem with false teacher Rick Warren? Amazing.
Rick Warren’s Deception Strikes Widely
https://bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/RickWarren.htm
Talk is cheap. If you want to convince anyone of anything you'll have to produce the evidence that I asked for.
Not laughing at you, I'm just laughing because I'm even a little surprised that I didn't see his stance on his pope. I love Catholics, but I don't claim their leadership as my own."calling themselves a “progressive evangelical”"
Wow. Sure sounds like a fitting appellation for some of the chatter going on around here doesn't it?
Great info in those links. Thanks.....
"Kay Warren is best known as the wife of Rick Warren, the smooth-talking Chrislam purpose-driven hustler who refers to Mormons and the Pope as brothers-in-Christ and who is a member of the globalist organization, Council on Foreign Relations."
Oh my, that's thoroughly ecumenical and then some.
Paul was not a pastor. Peter was a pastor and he was married.
You are taking something I said out of context. I made it clear that everyone can and should be in ministry and that includes a prayer ministry. You don't have to preach or teach or be an evangelist. But everyone of us was called to be a witness and that witness is a ministry.
However, being a pastor has a special requirement, and it is clear from Paul that preaching the word is not a requirement, that is a bonus. The requirement is that you "shepherd the sheep" which would probably amount to about 85% of your time involved in counseling married couples and people wanting to get married. Since marriage is 85% of your job it is absurd to have someone do this job who isn't married. That would be like hiring a life guard who has never gone swimming. Or a ski instructor who doesn't ski.
The other thing that amazes me is how sexist this discussion is. Paul requires your pastor to be the husband of one wife, therefore you are getting a husband and wife team. He isn't appointing a man to be pastor he is appointing a couple. Every church I have ever been in the pastor's wife is a very significant person in the church.
My but that is a pretty "liberal" interpretation coming from you.
The rest of us thought that Pauls encyclicals were set forth for the purposes of the settling of doctrinal marching orders once and for all for the entire Church from that point onward to the rapture.
But I guess not so much for the "progressive evangelicals".
Well.....Paul did not stay in Ephesus for two years planting Churches thats for sure. There is little doubt that he was the head pastor of the Ephesian Church beyond his daily task of preaching in synagogues and door-to-door and debating at the school of Tyrannus. But I would not be dogmatic about that issue......It's just an educated guess based on Acts 19 and 20.
Furthermore, the main job of the pastor is to teach the Church members and equip them so that they can go out and preach themselves. Far too few people understand this.
I have to say......I find it inconceivable that ANY pastor would spend 85% of this time counseling about marriage. I have never received counseling by any pastor for ANY matter and certainly not marriage. Frankly I don't like taking advice from other people about personal matters. And just to let you know marriage was never a priority for me. It did not matter to me one way or the other.
You can scream but you don't overcome Paul's writings.
You said it yourself really.
If Paul meant women should be silent in church the women he praised for serving all offices in his church would be a contradiction.
They're not.
Reading the full chapter in context, especially that part where those women are to wait and seek answers from their husbands later tells us Paul was referring to women who may seem clarification about the sermon preached. Don't stand and ask there in church. Stay silent and inquire later.
Women serving in church offices including as pastors in churches all over the world prove God calls women to serve.
Paul said we are all one in Christ.
That you and others don't accept that is a shame. It doesn't change Paul's church history.
Thieves wouldn't try to steal anything from you unless that which you have is very valuable.
No.....but rather it proves the warnings issued by Paul, Peter and others are coming to pass.
It is apparent to me that the Church is falling to pieces before my very eyes in real time and women pastors are part of the problem. The larger problem being the wholesale jettisoning of duly constituted Church doctrine.
It also proves that we are in the last seconds of these "last days".