Saddleback Church Ousted from Southern Baptist Convention Over Female Pastor

[cv5]

You might be right.


Except they were Christians. Not ministering in synagogue but in churches established by Paul.

Which is another reason why God said there is no Jew or Greek, male or female, because we are all one in Christ Jesus.

Right. How many women were noted in the NT as having rendered verdicts, specified doctrine, attended councils, wrote letters or led congregations?

Thats right. None. And none for hundreds of years afterward.

 

[Beckie]

The pastor is the shepherd pretty important to the sheep

 

[cv5]

It isn't meaningless that Paul lists Priscilla before Aquila five times of the seven they are mentioned...

Acts 18:18 Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sisters and sailed for Syria, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila. Before he sailed, he had his hair cut off at Cenchreae because of a vow he had taken.

Acts 18:19 They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left Priscilla and Aquila. He himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.

Acts 18:26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:19 Greet Priscilla and Aquila and the household of Onesiphorus.

Right. I know you know hermeneutics as well if not better than the majority here on CC.

That being said, are you purporting a new biblical doctrine of the authoritative leadership of women in the Church based on those passages?

 

[cv5]

Which is another reason why God said there is no Jew or Greek, male or female, because we are all one in Christ Jesus.

Applying well establish principles of hermeneutics, there is not the slightest reason to believe that those passages have anything whatsoever to do with overturning the principles of the settled order in the Church, namely the fact of the authoritative male headship in all duly ordained Church assemblies.

To better illustrate my point, let me lay down a challenge for you (and @Dino246 or anybody else who wants to participate):

Please provide the board with ANY documentary evidence that female authorities attended these Church councils:
-Acts 15, Nicaea in 325, Ephesus in 431, Chalcedon in 451, Constantinople in 553, Constantinople in 680, Second Council of Nicaea 784.

-penned ANY letters or encyclicals that were disseminated to the Churches

-pastored ANY Churches from Acts 2 thru to the writing of the King James Bible

Thank you, good luck, and case closed.

BTW....if Paul wanted to overturn all precedent and societal norms and boost the idea of female pastors, he would have said so. But he did not. He said just the opposite. In unambiguous unequivocal terms.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Applying well establish principles of hermeneutics, there is not the slightest reason to believe that those passages have anything whatsoever to do with overturning the principles of the settled order in the Church, namely the fact of the authoritative male headship in all duly ordained Church assemblies.

To better illustrate my point, let me lay down a challenge for you (and @Dino246 or anybody else who wants to participate):

Please provide the board with ANY documentary evidence that female authorities attended these Church councils:
-Acts 15, Nicaea in 325, Ephesus in 431, Chalcedon in 451, Constantinople in 553, Constantinople in 680, Second Council of Nicaea 784.

-penned ANY letters or encyclicals that were disseminated to the Churches

-pastored ANY Churches from Acts 2 thru to the writing of the King James Bible

Thank you, good luck, and case closed.

BTW....if Paul wanted to overturn all precedent and societal norms and boost the idea of female pastors, he would have said so. But he did not. He said just the opposite. In unambiguous unequivocal terms.

Case closed in your theology.
Paul's churches and Ephesians cannot be overcome by sexual discrimination. A sin.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Right. How many women were noted in the NT as having rendered verdicts, specified doctrine, attended councils, wrote letters or led congregations?

Thats right. None. And none for hundreds of years afterward.

Sad. False. Sad.

 

[cv5]

Sad. False. Sad.

Three words of denial? You aren't going to win you case with that tepid response.

 

[cv5]

Case closed in your theology.
Paul's churches and Ephesians cannot be overcome by sexual discrimination. A sin.

Not sure exactly what that means. But I do agree that you are confused in this matter.
Progressive new age wokeism has no place in the Church IMO.

 

[Scribe]

Are there any women reading this thread who feel called to fulltime ministry in the areas of evangelist, pastor, teacher, etc?
If so please don't be discouraged. The Assemblies of God welcomes women in ministry and provides world wide opportunities for training, education, and credentialing in any area of ministry you may feel called to pursue.

I just want to encourage those women who are looking for answers as to how to get from where they are today to fulltime ministry in the near future. Check out the Global University and the Credentialing path. Thousands of women are pastoring or in other fulltime ministry as a result of following this same training path.

https://globaluniversity.edu/academics/continuing-education/ministerial-studies/

 

[cv5]

Applying well establish principles of hermeneutics, there is not the slightest reason to believe that those passages have anything whatsoever to do with overturning the principles of the settled order in the Church, namely the fact of the authoritative male headship in all duly ordained Church assemblies.

To better illustrate my point, let me lay down a challenge for you (and @Dino246 or anybody else who wants to participate):

Please provide the board with ANY documentary evidence that female authorities attended these Church councils:
-Acts 15, Nicaea in 325, Ephesus in 431, Chalcedon in 451, Constantinople in 553, Constantinople in 680, Second Council of Nicaea 784.

-penned ANY letters or encyclicals that were disseminated to the Churches

-pastored ANY Churches from Acts 2 thru to the writing of the King James Bible

Thank you, good luck, and case closed.

BTW....if Paul wanted to overturn all precedent and societal norms and boost the idea of female pastors, he would have said so. But he did not. He said just the opposite. In unambiguous unequivocal terms.

EDIT^^
-penned ANY letters or encyclicals that were disseminated to the Churches from Acts 2 to the writing of the KJV.

 

[cv5]

Are there any women reading this thread who feel called to fulltime ministry in the areas of evangelist, pastor, teacher, etc?
If so please don't be discouraged. The Assemblies of God welcomes women in ministry and provides world wide opportunities for training, education, and credentialing in any area of ministry you may feel called to pursue.

I just want to encourage those women who are looking for answers as to how to get from where they are today to fulltime ministry in the near future. Check out the Global University and the Credentialing path. Thousands of women are pastoring or in other fulltime ministry as a result of following this same training path.

https://globaluniversity.edu/academics/continuing-education/ministerial-studies/

Thanks for the tip. Will avoid that Church group as well.

 

[PennEd]

1 Tim 2:11-15 and 1 Peter 3:1-7 are talking about the exact same thing. Take your time to read them both and you can't help but get the idea that this must have been a teaching that was often shared to the churches. Peter might even have been quoting Paul. If so then Peter's text gives us a more verbose explanation and makes it clearer that the subject is about wives and husbands not about whether a female is called to preach the word or teach the word or pastor churches. This of course has been argued about and will continue to be so, but the truth is that the Holy Spirit made it clear that women were included in the call to TEACH all nations by giving them Power to be Witnesses on the day of Pentecost when they SPOKE prophetic utterances and were sent to all nations just as all the 120 in the Upper room that day.

The Assemblies of God has always ordained women and hundreds of thousands of them have been empowered as evangelists, pastors, missionaries world wide.

To think that God would say "your a female so therefore you cannot pastor a church" is not who Jesus showed the Father to be. It is obvious that people have misunderstood the 1 Tim 2 and 1 Cor 14 througout church history. As they have other verses they have used to justify Pharisiacal attitudes


1 Pet 3
Christian Standard Bible Par ▾
Wives and Husbands
1In the same way, wives,a submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, even if some disobey the word,b they may be won overc without a word by the way their wives lived 2when they observe your pure, reverent lives.a 3Don’t let your beauty consist of outward things like elaborate hairstyles and wearing gold jewelry or fine clothes,a 4but rather what is inside the hearta a — the imperishable quality of a gentleb and quietc spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5For in the past, the holya women who put their hopeb in God also adorned themselves in this way, submitting to their own husbands, 6just as Saraha obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. You have become her children when you do what is good and do not fear any intimidation.b
7Husbands,a in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker partner,b showing them honor as coheirs of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

1 Tim 2
8Therefore, I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument.a 9Also, the women are to dress themselves in modest clothing,a with decency and good sense, not with elaborate hairstyles, gold,b pearls, or expensive apparel, 10but with good works,a as is proper for women who profess to worship God. 11A woman is to learn quietly with full submission.a 12I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve.a 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.a 15But she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness,a with good sense.

Are you the “Scribe” that left us almost two yrs ago!?

 

[PennEd]

skimming thread, and don't see anything about this mentioned:
Rick Warren and his wife are in cahoots with Soros.
Do you really think anything fruitful will come from Saddleback?

That’s the second time I’ve heard something like that.

Do you have a link about that?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are you the “Scribe” that left us almost two yrs ago!?

He must have been debating whether to join the Pharisees or the Sadducees. Just kidding.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are there any women reading this thread who feel called to fulltime ministry in the areas of evangelist, pastor, teacher, etc? If so please don't be discouraged. The Assemblies of God welcomes women in ministry and provides world wide opportunities for training, education, and credentialing in any area of ministry you may feel called to pursue.

The real issue for those women will be whether this is rebellion against God or not. And you will also be held accountable for misleading Christians.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the Word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. ( 1 Sam 15:23)

 

[shittim]

We have seen a few really nice folks come back, what a treat.
They might have been on Rumspringa- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

 

[Dino246]

Right. I know you know hermeneutics as well if not better than the majority here on CC.

That being said, are you purporting a new biblical doctrine of the authoritative leadership of women in the Church based on those passages?

No need. I only defend what Scripture says, and don’t accept what it doesn’t as doctrine.

 

[Godsgirl1983]

That’s the second time I’ve heard something like that.

Do you have a link about that?

I recall my husband talking about this some time back while doing some research. I'm not sure where he found it, or who he heard it from (you know very well how information quickly gets scrubbed, hidden and removed from the web) so when this thread came up I went to try and do some research myself. When I went to search I found this link (from Dec 2019), which talks about his wife, Kay Warren
https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pro...th-moore-attack-president-trump-george-soros/



I did just find this link.
You have to scroll way down past images and icons, but there is a list of various links, Warren is listed as being the focus in several of them. (I have not had, nor currently have time to check them myself)
https://timetofreeamerica.com/renting-religious-leaders/

 

[cv5]

No need. I only defend what Scripture says, and don’t accept what it doesn’t as doctrine.

Ok man.

Still looking for the evidence pleaded for here. If....IF you can actually obtain any evidence, it would do much to bolster your pathetically weak position.

https://christianchat.com/threads/s...ention-over-female-pastor.209787/post-5030849

"To better illustrate my point, let me lay down a challenge for you (and @Dino246 or anybody else who wants to participate):

Please provide the board with ANY documentary evidence that female authorities attended these Church councils:
-Acts 15, Nicaea in 325, Ephesus in 431, Chalcedon in 451, Constantinople in 553, Constantinople in 680, Second Council of Nicaea 784.

-evidence that female authorities penned ANY letters or encyclicals that were disseminated to the Churches from Acts 2 thru to the writing of the King James Bible

-evidence that female authorities pastored ANY Churches from Acts 2 thru to the writing of the King James Bible

Thank you, good luck, and case closed."

 

[cv5]

I recall my husband talking about this some time back while doing some research. I'm not sure where he found it, or who he heard it from (you know very well how information quickly gets scrubbed, hidden and removed from the web) so when this thread came up I went to try and do some research myself. When I went to search I found this link (from Dec 2019), which talks about his wife, Kay Warren
https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pro...th-moore-attack-president-trump-george-soros/



I did just find this link.
You have to scroll way down past images and icons, but there is a list of various links, Warren is listed as being the focus in several of them. (I have not had, nor currently have time to check them myself)
https://timetofreeamerica.com/renting-religious-leaders/

"calling themselves a “progressive evangelical”"

Wow. Sure sounds like a fitting appellation for some of the chatter going on around here doesn't it?
Great info in those links. Thanks.....

"Kay Warren is best known as the wife of Rick Warren, the smooth-talking Chrislam purpose-driven hustler who refers to Mormons and the Pope as brothers-in-Christ and who is a member of the globalist organization, Council on Foreign Relations."