Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Cor 2:14 pertains to the things of the Spirit of God, Spiritual things such as the Gospel is, so the natural man cannot understand the Gospel, the Cross of Christ.

the context of 1 Cor 2:14 is the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

We know you do not like to read a verse within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed a verse ... but that is no excuse for your manipulation of Scripture through your eisegesis.

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.​

​

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.​

​

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html​

And don't forget the importance of the context within which the Author has placed a verse:

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/context-Bible.html​

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus was not "Head of the Church" at the time He told His disciples:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

When Jesus spoke those words to His disciples, He knew He was on His way to His crucifixion, which is where He humbled Himself:

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

False Jesus has always been the Head of His Body the Church, from the Creation of the world

The Church did not exist prior to Day of Pentecost.

The Church, the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ and of which He is the Head, is comprised of both Jews and gentiles.

Before Day of Pentecost, Jews and gentiles were kept separate from each other in Temple worship:

Ephesians 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


vs 13 – but now ... now ... not "from the Creation of the world" as you state. Before now, gentiles were far off ... but now made near by the blood of Christ.


And look at Eph 2:14:

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

John Gill, your favorite calvinist commentator, says the following about the middle wall of partition (bold mine):

there was "a middle wall of partition"; a great difference and distance; and such there was between the Jew and Gentile, by reason of the ceremonial law; but Christ removed it, and made up the difference: the allusion seems to be to the wall which divided the court of Israel from the court of the Gentiles, in the temple, and which kept them at a distance in worship.​

The Church, the body of the Lord Jesus Christ and of which He is the Head, was not in existence "from the Creation of the world" ... recall the record in Acts 10 where Peter went to the home of Cornelius, a gentile. After Cornelius and his household were born again, Peter and the Jews who were with him were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 10:45).

Cornelius and his household did not have to convert to Judaism before receiving Holy Spirit ... the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4).

Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:18 does not support your claim that the Church was in existence from the Creation of the world".

Colossians 1:18 states that the Lord Jesus Christ is the preeminent One ... the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence.

All for whom Christ died, they were Justified

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

your interpretation of Scripture smacks of universalism ...

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes Jesus spoke metaphorically Matt 11:7-15

There was a prophecy stating elijah shall come, Now Jesus said John the Baptist fulfilled that Prophecy, but not physically, He is speaking metaphorically, John the Baptist wasn't literally Elijah.

The record in John 2:19-21 has nothing to do with the record in Matthew 11:7-15.

The record in Matthew relates to John Baptist.

The record in John 2:19-21 relates to Jesus telling the Jews that He would be resurrected from the dead after 3 days ... this truth is further corroborated in John 2:22:

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them ...

When He was risen (verb – 3rd person singular – referring to the literal resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ from the dead.

Just because the Jews thought Jesus was speaking of the temple building does not mean Jesus was speaking of the building ... and Scripture clarifies in John 2:21 that Jesus was referring to the resurrection of His body 3 days after the crucifixion.

So you speak foolishly and unlearnedly about Jesus not speaking metaphorically.

for the record ... I never stated Jesus did not speak metaphorically. I said "Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21." (Post #3137)

Check out Matthew 16:18:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church ...

The words I will build are translated from the Greek word oikodomeō which is a verb – future tense.

If, as you claim, the church "from the Creation of the world", the verb would have been in past tense and instead of I will build Jesus would have stated "I have built" ...


Your manipulation of Scripture has again failed to support your claim that the church, the body of which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head, was in existence "from the Creation of the world".

Quit making stuff up ... you just "speak foolishly and unlearnedly" about Scripture ...
.

 

[brightfame52]

the context of 1 Cor 2:14 is the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

We know you do not like to read a verse within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed a verse ... but that is no excuse for your manipulation of Scripture through your eisegesis.

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.​

​

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.​

​

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html​

And don't forget the importance of the context within which the Author has placed a verse:

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/context-Bible.html​

.

The context is the Gospel, the preaching of the Cross and the natural man cannot understand it 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. CSB

 

[brightfame52]

The Church did not exist prior to Day of Pentecost.

The Church, the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ and of which He is the Head, is comprised of both Jews and gentiles.

Before Day of Pentecost, Jews and gentiles were kept separate from each other in Temple worship:

Ephesians 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


vs 13 – but now ... now ... not "from the Creation of the world" as you state. Before now, gentiles were far off ... but now made near by the blood of Christ.


And look at Eph 2:14:

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

John Gill, your favorite calvinist commentator, says the following about the middle wall of partition (bold mine):

there was "a middle wall of partition"; a great difference and distance; and such there was between the Jew and Gentile, by reason of the ceremonial law; but Christ removed it, and made up the difference: the allusion seems to be to the wall which divided the court of Israel from the court of the Gentiles, in the temple, and which kept them at a distance in worship.​

The Church, the body of the Lord Jesus Christ and of which He is the Head, was not in existence "from the Creation of the world" ... recall the record in Acts 10 where Peter went to the home of Cornelius, a gentile. After Cornelius and his household were born again, Peter and the Jews who were with him were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 10:45).

Cornelius and his household did not have to convert to Judaism before receiving Holy Spirit ... the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4).





Colossians 1:18 does not support your claim that the Church was in existence from the Creation of the world".

Colossians 1:18 states that the Lord Jesus Christ is the preeminent One ... the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence.





The Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

your interpretation of Scripture smacks of universalism ...

.

Jesus Created the world as the Head of the Church. And that's the only world He Loved and died for, His Church, and everybody isnt of His Body the Church. Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[brightfame52]

The record in John 2:19-21 has nothing to do with the record in Matthew 11:7-15.

The record in Matthew relates to John Baptist.

The record in John 2:19-21 relates to Jesus telling the Jews that He would be resurrected from the dead after 3 days ... this truth is further corroborated in John 2:22:

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them ...

When He was risen (verb – 3rd person singular – referring to the literal resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ from the dead.

Just because the Jews thought Jesus was speaking of the temple building does not mean Jesus was speaking of the building ... and Scripture clarifies in John 2:21 that Jesus was referring to the resurrection of His body 3 days after the crucifixion.





for the record ... I never stated Jesus did not speak metaphorically. I said "Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21." (Post #3137)

Check out Matthew 16:18:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church ...

The words I will build are translated from the Greek word oikodomeō which is a verb – future tense.

If, as you claim, the church "from the Creation of the world", the verb would have been in past tense and instead of I will build Jesus would have stated "I have built" ...


Your manipulation of Scripture has again failed to support your claim that the church, the body of which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head, was in existence "from the Creation of the world".

Quit making stuff up ... you just "speak foolishly and unlearnedly" about Scripture ...
.

You still sound unlearned, Jesus spoke at times metaphorically.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You still sound unlearned, Jesus spoke at times metaphorically.

again ... I never stated that the Lord Jesus Christ did not speak metaphorically at times.

here is what I said (bold/red mine to help you comprehend what was written):

Post 3137: ​

​

Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21.​

I then pointed out that if you would read the next verse (John 2:22), you would see Scripture makes plain that Jesus was speaking of His resurrection:

Post 3137: ​

​

Read the next verse, brightfame52. Jesus was speaking literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion.​

​

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them​

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The context is the Gospel

nope ... the context is the mystery, the hidden wisdom hid in God since the world began (Rom 16:25) ... and which in other ages was not made known to the sons of man (Eph 3:4-5) ... because the mystery, the hidden wisdom was hid in God from the beginning of the world (Eph 3:9) ... and was hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints (Col 1:26).

For you to continue to insist the Gospel is the mystery is foolishness on your part.

But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. CSB

Quoting the verse from another translation of the Bible does not change the Gospel into the mystery, the hidden wisdom


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The Church did not exist prior to Day of Pentecost.


The Church, the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ and of which He is the Head, is comprised of both Jews and gentiles.

Before Day of Pentecost, Jews and gentiles were kept separate from each other in Temple worship:

Ephesians 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

vs 13 – but now ... now ... not "from the Creation of the world" as you state. Before now, gentiles were far off ... but now made near by the blood of Christ.

And look at Eph 2:14:

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

John Gill, your favorite calvinist commentator, says the following about the middle wall of partition (bold mine):

there was "a middle wall of partition"; a great difference and distance; and such there was between the Jew and Gentile, by reason of the ceremonial law; but Christ removed it, and made up the difference: the allusion seems to be to the wall which divided the court of Israel from the court of the Gentiles, in the temple, and which kept them at a distance in worship.

The Church, the body of the Lord Jesus Christ and of which He is the Head, was not in existence "from the Creation of the world" ... recall the record in Acts 10 where Peter went to the home of Cornelius, a gentile. After Cornelius and his household were born again, Peter and the Jews who were with him were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 10:45).

Cornelius and his household did not have to convert to Judaism before receiving Holy Spirit ... the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4).

Jesus Created the world as the Head of the Church.

I do not hold to your replacement theology dogma.

fyi ... the church was not established until after the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, resurrected, ascended into heaven to sit at the right Hand of the throne of God.

When did the church begin?​

​

The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again.​

​

...​

​

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).​

​

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26-27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).​

​

...​

​

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritans were evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34-35; 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).​

https://www.gotquestions.org/when-did-the-church-begin.html​

​

You have again failed in your futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, get rid of the error.


1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
.

 

[brightfame52]

again ... I never stated that the Lord Jesus Christ did not speak metaphorically at times.

here is what I said (bold/red mine to help you comprehend what was written):

Post 3137: ​

​

Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21.​

I then pointed out that if you would read the next verse (John 2:22), you would see Scripture makes plain that Jesus was speaking of His resurrection:

Post 3137: ​

​

Read the next verse, brightfame52. Jesus was speaking literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion.​

​

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them​

.

The point is, Jesus spoke at times metaphorically.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... the context is the mystery, the hidden wisdom hid in God since the world began (Rom 16:25) ... and which in other ages was not made known to the sons of man (Eph 3:4-5) ... because the mystery, the hidden wisdom was hid in God from the beginning of the world (Eph 3:9) ... and was hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints (Col 1:26).

For you to continue to insist the Gospel is the mystery is foolishness on your part.





Quoting the verse from another translation of the Bible does not change the Gospel into the mystery, the hidden wisdom


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

1 Cor 2:14 is about the Gospel, the preaching of the Cross. The context bears that out as well 1 Cor 1:1:17-2:14

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The learned John Gill says of 1 Cor 2:14

But the natural man,.... Not a babe in Christ, one that is newly born again, for though such have but little knowledge of spiritual things, yet they have a taste, and do relish and desire, and receive the sincere milk of the word, and grow thereby; but an unregenerate man, that has no knowledge at all of such things; not an unregenerate man only, who is openly and notoriously profane, abandoned to sensual lusts and pleasures; though such a man being sensual, and not having the Spirit, must be a natural man; but rather the wise philosopher, the Scribe, the disputer of this world; the rationalist, the man of the highest attainments in nature, in whom reason is wrought up to its highest pitch; the man of the greatest natural parts and abilities, yet without the Spirit and grace of God, mentioned 1 Corinthians 1:20 and who all along, both in that chapter and in this, quite down to this passage, is had in view: indeed, every man in a state of nature, who is as he was born, whatever may be the inward furniture of his mind, or his outward conduct of life, is but a natural man, and such an one
receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: not the things relating to the deity, personality, and perfections of the Holy Spirit, though these the natural man knows not, nor receives; nor the things done by him, particularly the operations of his grace on the souls of men in regeneration, concerning which he says, as Nicodemus did, "how can these things be?" but the truths of the Gospel before spoken of; so called, because they are contained in the Scriptures edited by the Spirit of God, are the deep things of God, which he searches into and reveals; and because they are made known by him, who is given and received for that end and purpose, that the saints might know them; and because they are delivered by the preachers of the Gospel, in words which he teacheth; now these the natural man receives not in the love of them, so as to approve of and like them, truly to believe them, cordially embrace them, and heartily be subject to them, profess and obey them, but on the contrary abhors and rejects them:

 

[brightfame52]

I do not hold to your replacement theology dogma.

fyi ... the church was not established until after the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, resurrected, ascended into heaven to sit at the right Hand of the throne of God.

When did the church begin?​

​

The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again.​

​

...​

​

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).​

​

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26-27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).​

​

...​

​

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritans were evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34-35; 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).​

https://www.gotquestions.org/when-did-the-church-begin.html​

​

You have again failed in your futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, get rid of the error.


1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
.

Jesus Christ has always been the Head of the Church, from the beginning of the world Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Jesus Christ has always been the Head of His Body the Church Heb 13:5-8

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Vs 5 is taken from the OT Joshua 1:5



If there was a time Jesus Christ wasn't the Head of His Body the Church, He has changed.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The point is, Jesus spoke at times metaphorically.

Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21 as you claimed in your Post #3132.

In John 2:19-21, Jesus spoke literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion.

Your futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma has again failed.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Cor 2:14 is about the Gospel, the preaching of the Cross. The context bears that out as well 1 Cor 1:1:17-2:14

The remote context of 1 Cor 1:17-2:2 does not change the fact that the immediate context beginning in 1 Cor 2:6 speaks of the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21 as you claimed in your Post #3132.

In John 2:19-21, Jesus spoke literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion.

Your futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma has again failed.
.

Again at times Jesus spoke metaphorically about Spiritual matters !

 

[brightfame52]

The remote context of 1 Cor 1:17-2:2 does not change the fact that the immediate context beginning in 1 Cor 2:6 speaks of the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

The Context is the Gospel, so in line with the context, 1 Cor 2:14 the things of the Spirit of God are nothing short of the Gospel of the Cross, its foolishness to the natural, lost person 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Several verses later Paul emphasis is the same just different wording 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Pulpit commentary says of 1 Cor 18-25:

Verses 18-25. - The nature of true Christian preaching. Verse 18. - For the preaching of the cross; rather, the word of the cross. To them that are perishing; rather, to the perishing; to all those who are now walking in the paths that lead to destruction (2 Corinthians 2:15). To them it was foolishness, because it requires spiritual discernment (1 Corinthians 2:14);

Thats what I have been saying !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus Christ has always been the Head of the Church

I do not hold to your replacement theology dogma.

fyi ... the church was not established until after the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, resurrected, ascended into heaven to sit at the right Hand of the throne of God.

When did the church begin?​

​

The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again.​

​

...​

​

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).​

​

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26-27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).​

​

...​

​

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritans were evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34-35; 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).​

https://www.gotquestions.org/when-did-the-church-begin.html​

You have again failed in your futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.

If there was a time Jesus Christ wasn't the Head of His Body the Church, He has changed.

... I have shown you that when the Lord Jesus Christ walked on the earth, He spoke of a time yet future when He will build His Church:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build [Greek oikodomeō = verb, future tense] my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Future tense:​

​

In grammar, a future tense (abbreviated FUT) is a verb form that generally marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_tense​

If, as you claim, the Lord Jesus Christ "has always been the Head of the Church, from the beginning of the world", the verb tense in Matthew 16:18 would not have been future tense.

Your replacement theology dogma has again failed when scrutinized under the light of Scripture.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

I do not hold to your replacement theology dogma.

Dont matter, Christ has always been the Head of His Body the Church, from the beginning when He created all things for Himself Col 1:16-18

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

... I have shown you that when the Lord Jesus Christ walked on the earth, He spoke of a time yet future when He will build His Church:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build [Greek oikodomeō = verb, future tense] my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Future tense:

In grammar, a future tense (abbreviated FUT) is a verb form that generally marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_tense

If, as you claim, the Lord Jesus Christ "has always been the Head of the Church, from the beginning of the world", the verb tense in Matthew 16:18 would not have been future tense.

Your replacement theology dogma has again failed when scrutinized under the light of Scripture.

Christ hasn't changed, He has always been the Head of His Body the Church, they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

Now when Christ said He will build His Church, He didn't mean it didn't already exist because it did, He was going to add to it, specifically Gentile believers. Rom 9 the good Olive Tree would have Gentiles grafted in, the Call of the Gentiles into the Church

He called it MY Church, MY is a possessive pronoun, He was right then and there in possession of His Church

The Church is merely His called out ones from amongst the world, that began early in world history.

And the addition of the Gentiles was future from the time Christ spoke those words.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21 as you claimed in your Post #3132.

In John 2:19-21, Jesus spoke literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion.

Your futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma has again failed.
.

Again at times Jesus spoke metaphorically about Spiritual matters !

Jesus speaking "metaphorically about Spiritual matters !" in other passages in Scripture does not change the fact that Jesus spoke literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion in John 2:19-21.

Quit trying to rewrite Scripture in your futile attempt to support your dogma. Let go of your error and believe Scripture just as written.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The remote context of 1 Cor 1:17-2:2 does not change the fact that the immediate context beginning in 1 Cor 2:6 speaks of the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

The Context is the Gospel

The context changes from the gospel to the mystery, the hidden wisdom at 1 Cor 2:6.

Several verses later Paul emphasis is the same just different wording 1 Cor 2:14

The context changes from the gospel to the mystery, the hidden wisdom at 1 Cor 2:6.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.