Whom Did Christ Die For?

[awelight]

The following Scriptures prove calvinism wrong:
Matthew 22 The Wedding Banquet
John 10 The Good Shepherd
John 3.16-18
1 Timothy 2.1-6
Revelation 3.20

I didn't ask you, for what you believe, are counter verses. Thus, trying to pit one verse against another. I asked you to give a proper interpretation of my post #21 because you believe I am wrong. You say John 10 proves Calvinism wrong, then please interpret.

 

[Snacks]

I’m giving you definitive proof that Calvinism is garbage. There is no possible way you could take the aforementioned verses and correctly rationalize that God creates some people to be destined for destruction. God is love, and that’s not love, it’s evil.

Look at John 10.9, if anyone enters by Me, he will be saved. It doesn’t say when those I have called enter by me, it says if anyone enters by me, thus declaring anyone and everyone has the opportunity to do so.

 

[HeIsHere]

I didn't ask you, for what you believe, are counter verses. Thus, trying to pit one verse against another. I asked you to give a proper interpretation of my post #21 because you believe I am wrong. You say John 10 proves Calvinism wrong, then please interpret.

Is it really worth the time and effort, not likely ....but here is the correct understanding of the verses you posted.

Sheep ≠ Elect
Sheep = Follower

Throughout the book of John the point that Jesus is making is that you do not follow me because you do not follow my Father who sent me.

John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.


Jesus is not stating >>>>> I didn't die for you, you cannot believe because I did not choose you.

Are you now going to accuse me of open theism or something?

 

[brightfame52]

So this has become the question in another thread. Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all. Here are the two views;


1. Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination.

Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.




2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.


I find this a very interesting question. I am digging deeper to fully explain what I believe and why. Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

Limited atonement is the true doctrine of Christ!

 

[Snacks]

Sheep ≠ Elect
Sheep = Follower

That, right there!

 

[Snacks]

Limited atonement is the true doctrine of Christ!

Pure heresy.

 

[mustaphadrink]

So this has become the question in another thread. Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all. Here are the two views;


1. Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination.

Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.




2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.


I find this a very interesting question. I am digging deeper to fully explain what I believe and why. Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

I was asked for my views on universal salvation and had to admit I had not delved too deeply into the subject, so I got my books out to take a look at it. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter.

Universal salvation is not valid because if it is then one has to accept people like Hitler, Mao Ze Dong, Lenin, Marx, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Amin, et al. into the kingdom of God. I am not aware that any of them repented of their sin and found forgiveness from God.

Scripture points to conditional salvation as in John 3 v 16; all men are sinners and have to deal with the fact i.e. All have sinned and come short of God's glory; .
If Christ's death was sufficient for all, why do we need to repent?

If Christ's death was sufficient for all, why do we need to receive him? (As many as receive him to them he gives the right to become the sons of God.) This means if we don't receive him then the right to become a son of God is not given.

Christ came into the world to suffer and die for those who were given to him as they could not save themselves. There is no point in suffering and dying for people who reject him. So we are talking about limited atonement, not universal.

 

[brightfame52]

Pure heresy.

You calling Gods Gospel Heresy friend, not good, may God grant you repentance if its His will !

 

[HeIsHere]

There is no point in suffering and dying for people who reject him.

Your logic fails in the light of God's plan and purpose.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).

Oh I know world does not really mean world.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I was asked for my views on universal salvation and had to admit I had not delved too deeply into the subject, so I got my books out to take a look at it. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter.

Universal salvation is not valid because if it is then one has to accept people like Hitler, Mao Ze Dong, Lenin, Marx, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Amin, et al. into the kingdom of God. I am not aware that any of them repented of their sin and found forgiveness from God.

Scripture points to conditional salvation as in John 3 v 16; all men are sinners and have to deal with the fact i.e. All have sinned and come short of God's glory; .
If Christ's death was sufficient for all, why do we need to repent?

If Christ's death was sufficient for all, why do we need to receive him? (As many as receive him to them he gives the right to become the sons of God.) This means if we don't receive him then the right to become a son of God is not given.

Christ came into the world to suffer and die for those who were given to him as they could not save themselves. There is no point in suffering and dying for people who reject him. So we are talking about limited atonement, not universal.

No, I wasn't talking about universal salvation. That's another topic, and I don't believe in it.

 

[brightfame52]

Your logic fails in the light of God's plan and purpose.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).

Oh I know world does not really mean world.

It does mean world, but it doesnt mean every individual.

 

[HeIsHere]

It does mean world, but it doesnt mean every individual.

John 15:18-19 says:
If the world hate you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Okay, let's see how that works...

If the chosen hate you, who are the chosen, ye know that the chosen hated me before the chosen hated you who are chosen.

If you chosen were of the chosen, the chosen would love his own chosen: but because you chosen are not of the chosen, but I have

chosen you chosen out of the chosen, therefore the chosen hates you chosen who are chosen.

Makes complete sense to me!

 

[Snacks]

Universal salvation is not valid because if it is then one has to accept people like Hitler, Mao Ze Dong, Lenin, Marx, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Amin, et al. into the kingdom of God. I am not aware that any of them repented of their sin and found forgiveness from God.

If they did not repent and place their faith in Jesus Christ then they do not have salvation. But if they did, then they do.

 

[Snacks]

John 15:18-19 says:
If the world hate you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Okay, let's see how that works...

If the chosen hate you, who are the chosen, ye know that the chosen hated me before the chosen hated you who are chosen.

If you chosen were of the chosen, the chosen would love his own chosen: but because you chosen are not of the chosen, but I have

chosen you chosen out of the chosen, therefore the chosen hates you chosen who are chosen.

Makes complete sense to me!

That’s epic!

 

[HeIsHere]

That’s epic!

Someone taught me that trick a long time ago to check the meaning of words.
It is pretty handy.

 

[brightfame52]

John 15:18-19 says:
If the world hate you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Okay, let's see how that works...

If the chosen hate you, who are the chosen, ye know that the chosen hated me before the chosen hated you who are chosen.

If you chosen were of the chosen, the chosen would love his own chosen: but because you chosen are not of the chosen, but I have

chosen you chosen out of the chosen, therefore the chosen hates you chosen who are chosen.

Makes complete sense to me!

Like I stated world in Jn 3:16 does mean world, just not every individual in the world, you would know this if you have studied the word before in its scripture usage.

 

[HeIsHere]

Like I stated world in Jn 3:16 does mean world, just not every individual in the world, you would know this if you have studied the word before in its scripture usage.

I know it is hard to accept reality.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [John 3:16 KJV]

It doesn't say chosen or elect.

 

[Snacks]

You calling Gods Gospel Heresy friend, not good, may God grant you repentance if its His will !

God’s Gospel is not heresy and I would never think or utter such blasphemy. You’re views are heresy.

 

[brightfame52]

If they did not repent and place their faith in Jesus Christ then they do not have salvation. But if they did, then they do.

If Christ died for any individual, they will repent and receive the forgiveness of sins, simply because He gives those blessings to people He died for and rose again for , He is their Prince and Saviour Acts 5:32

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Giving here means that He applies this spiritual blessing Himself !

 

[brightfame52]

I know it is hard to accept reality.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [John 3:16 KJV]

It doesn't say chosen or elect.

It doesnt say every individual. You need to accept that reality !