Whom Did Christ Die For?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Cameron143 said:
Right. What I found interesting is that these verses highlight the distinctions being made concerning who is actually being considered in various other verses.

Verses 1 is no doubt a reference to my little children referred to earlier...so saved people. But verse 2 could refer to all mankind or a general reference that forgiveness is available to those who have asked because God has accepted Christ's sacrifice as a propitiation.
Click to expand...
I tend to think that the debt is paid. All sins are paid for, but in order for you to obtain salvation you must believe and obey. That is why they will be held accountable (condemned) for not believing. Jn.3:18
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
MessengerofTruth said:
I tend to think that the debt is paid. All sins are paid for, but in order for you to obtain salvation you must believe and obey. That is why they will be held accountable (condemned) for not believing. Jn.3:18
Click to expand...
I tend to go the other way because I don't understand how a person can be in hell who's sins are paid for.
 
MessengerofTruth said:
Please explain your understanding of 1Jn. 2:1-2.

"1.) ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2.) And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world."
Click to expand...
Its the elect jew and gentile
 
soberxp said:
I was confused about this question, too, until Jesus revealed the answer to me, but I can't tell you the answer because it would cause unnecessary trouble.

The Gospel of John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Corinthians 10:10
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Click to expand...
Everyone Jesus Christ died for are the sanctified Heb 10:10, If we be not sanctified forever, He didnt die for us !
 
soberxp said:
Sanctification and salvation may be two different things, cuz there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
Click to expand...
Sanctification is part of and accompanies salvation 2 Thess 2:13

2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
 
brightfame52 said:
Okay Not one of those scriptures say God Loved every individual in the world, nor Christ died for every individual in the world.
Click to expand...
God is love therefore God loves every individual. To say otherwise is like saying water is wet but certain people don’t get wet when they take a shower. Complete lunacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
brightfame52 said:
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Click to expand...
Jacob and Esau are identified as nations.

Genesis 25:22 The children inside her struggled with each other, and she said, “Why is this
happening to me?” So Rebekah went to inquire of the LORD, 23 and He declared to her:
“Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one
people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”

None of that changes the fact that Jesus is the propitiation for our
sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
Snacks said:
God is love therefore God loves every individual. To say otherwise is like saying water is wet but certain people don’t get wet when they take a shower. Complete lunacy.
Click to expand...
God is Love but its limited to His Elect in Christ, and for them alone He Loved, Christ died for and saved them. To say God Loves every individual is a lie Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
 
Magenta said:
Jacob and Esau are identified as nations.

Genesis 25:22 The children inside her struggled with each other, and she said, “Why is this
happening to me?” So Rebekah went to inquire of the LORD, 23 and He declared to her:
“Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one
people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”

None of that changes the fact that Jesus is the propitiation for our
sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Click to expand...
They're individuals, brothers, God Loved one and hated the other.
 
brightfame52 said:
No, are you denying that the scripture identify them as individuals ?
Click to expand...
Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and
children and brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be My disciple.

Compare to

1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does
not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Leviticus 19:17
“You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason
frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him.

1 John 2:9
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members
of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

1 John 2:11
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and
does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
Magenta said:
Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and
children and brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be My disciple.

Compare to

1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does
not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Leviticus 19:17
“You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason
frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him.

1 John 2:9
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members
of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

1 John 2:11
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and
does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
Click to expand...
Answer the question like I answered yours with a yes or no. Do you deny the scriptures teach that jacob and esau were individuals ?
 
brightfame52 said:
God is Love but its limited to His Elect in Christ, and for them alone He Loved, Christ died for and saved them. To say God Loves every individual is a lie Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Click to expand...
So you don’t get wet when you take a shower. That’s good to know.
 
Magenta said:
What a silly question. Of course they were individuals. Individuals identified as nations.
Click to expand...
God hated and individual Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

In fact He hated many Individuals, a nation is a multiplicator of Individuals, did you realize that. Mal 1

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.
 
brightfame52 said:
God hated and individual Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

In fact He hated many Individuals, a nation is a multiplicator of Individuals, did you realize that. Mal 1

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.
Click to expand...
I notice you quote from a verse which also identifies Esau as a nation (Edom) :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
brightfame52 said:
Yeah, I already told you that. God hated more than one individual, is a nation comprised of more than one individual ?
Click to expand...
Of course. Jacob and Esau representing nations can easily be seen as believers and non-believers.
In fact, Edom is depicted as the enemy of Israel (named after Jacob following his name change).
However, in looking at how the words love and hate are used as per the verses I gave you, we
can also see that to hate someone does not mean what people would normally assume.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back