Past sins forgiven

[anothertheory]

John 3:3,7 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee,
Ye must be born again.

So many passages undermine this, clear conflict - Jesus said he did not come to change a 'jot' of what came before.

“The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” [Ezekiel 18:20]

Deuteronomy 24:16 - 16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.

If Jesus died for our sins then we do not need to worry - do whatever we want - as long as we believe. Jesus says:

Matthew 23:8–12 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

 

[Dino246]

Yes I do - Timothy is Paul writing about himself -

“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according
to my gospel:” 2 Timothy 2:8

Romans 15:20 20 In this way I have aspired to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation.

could quote so many more

I see no reason to entertain your delusion.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

.
The seed spoken of in Gal 3:29 is a singularity.

• Gal 3:17 . . The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The
Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to
your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

So it would be improper for a Christian to say "I am Abraham's seed" when
the appropriate thing to say is "We are Abraham's seed" i.e. a collective
unity.

• Gal 3:27-28 . . For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed
yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male
nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

* I've seen people claim Gal 3:29 says Christians are spiritual Jews. But
Abraham was a Gentile; and besides: Gal 3:28 says there are no ethnic
distictions in Christ.
_

It’s more like the chosen Jews have now become just like the rest of the people sinners needing salvation

jews need to become Christians and gentiles need to become Christian’s

all people need to become Christian

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I see no reason to entertain your delusion.

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Webers.Home]

.

But we must not sin wilfully.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

The letter to Hebrews was addressed to folks whose association with God is
governed by the covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; wherein is stated:

"But the person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the
Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has
spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person
shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt. (Num 15:30-31)

There are no atonements in the Levitical system for scofflaws; and yet
David was one of those very kinds of offenders in his premeditated sins of
adultery and murder with Bathsheba. Where's David today; in Hell? No, he's
not in Hell because God wiped David's criminal history by transferring his
willful sins to the cross. (Isa 53:6, Rom 3:23-26, Acts 13:38-39)
_

 

[Webers.Home]

.
God prohibits dishonesty.

• Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

So then, when folks who know dishonesty is wrong go ahead and be
dishonest anyway, they are guilty of willful sin.

I would be willing to bet my next Social Security deposit that there are folks
out there reading this right now who are not above practicing deceit, half
truths, white lies, fibs, false impressions, hiding their true feelings, slanting
the truth by omitting pertinent information, cover--ups, slander, cheating,
forgery, treachery, breaking promises, dishonoring oaths, hypocrisy, double
dealing, fakery, two-facedness, fraud, insincerity, etc, all the while knowing
that what they are doing is wrong.

Were it not for Christ's willingness to endure the cross, everybody with a forked
tongue would end up on the wrong side of things.

• Heb 10:26-27 . . Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we
have received a full knowledge of the truth, there is no other sacrifice that
will cover these sins.

• Acts 13:38-39 . .Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through
him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through him everyone who
believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through
the Law of Moses.
_

 

[Underwhosewings]

.



The letter to Hebrews was addressed to folks whose association with God is
governed by the covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; wherein is stated:

"But the person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the
Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has
spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person
shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt. (Num 15:30-31)

There are no atonements in the Levitical system for scofflaws; and yet
David was one of those very kinds of offenders in his premeditated sins of
adultery and murder with Bathsheba. Where's David today; in Hell? No, he's
not in Hell because God wiped David's criminal history by transferring his
willful sins to the cross. (Isa 53:6, Rom 3:23-26, Acts 13:38-39)
_

No one reproved David.
No one resisted David.
He was not repetitive in this sin.
2 Samuel 12:5-7 KJV
And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the Lord liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die: [6] And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity. [7] And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man….
(This is not wilful behaviour.)

 

[Webers.Home]

.

This is not wilful behaviour.

David was both a patriarch and a prophet. (Acts 2:29-30) You can't tell me
he didn't know beforehand that murder and adultery are prohibited by the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

* Beware of sophistry: defined by Webster's as subtly deceptive reasoning or
argumentation. (cf. Eph 4:14)
_

 

[Underwhosewings]

.



David was both a patriarch and a prophet. (Acts 2:29-30) You can't tell me
he didn't know beforehand that murder and adultery are prohibited by the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

* Beware of sophistry: defined by Webster's as subtly deceptive reasoning or
argumentation. (cf. Eph 4:14)
_

He definitely knew.
Like all the sins we know.
David was the King.
I will make you the king, and see how you fare.

 

[Underwhosewings]

.



David was both a patriarch and a prophet. (Acts 2:29-30) You can't tell me
he didn't know beforehand that murder and adultery are prohibited by the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

* Beware of sophistry: defined by Webster's as subtly deceptive reasoning or
argumentation. (cf. Eph 4:14)
_

We are human.
Under different circumstances, we are faced with different temptations.
We must be aware of our weaknesses, and strive against sin.
Hebrews 12:4 KJV
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Clearly, King David didn’t really need a break from the Lords battles.
Stay in the battle to be victorious in Christ and a soul winner.

After salvation
then comes the cross
and being conformed to the image of his Son.
Romans 8:29 KJV
…to be conformed to the image of his Son, …
Matthew 16:24-26 KJV
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
[25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

[26] For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

Too often I see folks attempting to use that verse to prove that not even
Jesus' crucifixion can make up for willful sins. But the better way to interpret
that verse is that there remains no other sacrifice instead of no more
sacrifice, because were Jesus' crucifixion inadequate for satisfying justice for
willful sins, then everybody would end up lost because the law of Moses
permits no atonements for willful sins.

● Num 15:30-31 . . But the person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts
defiantly reviles The Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his
people. Because he has spurned the word of The Lord and violated His
commandment, that person shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt.

However, Christ's crucifixion trumps Moses' law

● Acts 13:38-39 . . Let it be known to you, brethren, that through him
forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through him everyone who
believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through
the law of Moses.

* Although the crucifixion didn't take place in human history till many years
after the enactment of Moses' law, it trumps Moses because Christ was a
done deal even before Moses was born.

● 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that it was not with perishable things such
as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed
down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a
lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the
world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

● Rev 13:8 . .The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

BTW: According to Acts 2:29-30, David was prophet. As such he knew things
about Christ (1Pet 1:10-11) so it's likely he wasn't shocked when God let
him off for premeditated murder and adultery.
_

 

[Magenta]

Jesus said he did not come to change a 'jot' of what came before.

That's true The law remains to condemn those who are not covered
by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.

Erm, unless you mean the 613 mitzvot. Christians are under a new and better covenant

If Jesus died for our sins then we do not need to worry - do whatever we want - as long as we believe.

Antinomianism has been condemned as heresy. Paul writes that the law
is not made void by faith but rather established by faith (Romans 3:31).

 

[anothertheory]

That's true The law remains to condemn those who are not covered
by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.

Erm, unless you mean the 613 mitzvot. Christians are under a new and better covenant


Antinomianism has been condemned as heresy. Paul writes that the law
is not made void by faith but rather established by faith (Romans 3:31).

Jesu never mentioned a new covenant.

Pauls says;

Romans 9:16 - 16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

Galatians 2:16 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

could quote so many

JAMES 2:26 Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works

Jesus says; "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9

 

[anothertheory]

I see no reason to entertain your delusion.

I position is backed by text, God, OT & Jesus - not Paul.
Jesus:
Matt 7: 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…

 

[Magenta]

Jesu never mentioned a new covenant.

Luke 22:20~ In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is
the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." (Jesus speaking).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He definitely knew.
Like all the sins we know.
David was the King.
I will make you the king, and see how you fare.

“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


David began with coveting just looking with lust at Bathsheba with the wrong intent

then he ordered another man’s wife be brought to him and commits adultery
impregnating uriah the hittites wife

then he begins to panick that he’s going to be found out so he schemes to make it appear the child is uriahs own

His schemes fail because of uriahs loyalty to the ark

He finally plots a scheme to kill Uriah to cover his own transgressions coveting , adultery a death sentence , and plotting and ordering a man’s death to cover his own list of sins

this all after God chose and annointed David

after david is gone and God speaks of him he says this of him

“and rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;”
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭14:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is willing to totally forgive those he already loves and chooses and remember not a thing against them

 

[anothertheory]

Luke 22:20~ In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is
the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." (Jesus speaking).

Luke 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

yet at 20 Jesus allegedly takes the cup again.

Luke was a follower / taught by Paul - he like Paul never met Jesus - obviously mentioned in Mark & Matthew - goes back to was Jesus sacrificed - God clearly states he does not like sacrifice. YET HE SHOULD SACRIFICE JESUS


Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: ***I desire mercy, not sacrifice*** For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Psalm 40:6 - 6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire but my ears you have opened burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Deuteronomy 12:31 - 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3)

Ezekiel 23:36-37 - 36 The LORD said to me: “Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, 37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; ***they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, as food for them***

 

[Magenta]

Luke 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

yet at 20 Jesus allegedly takes the cup again.

Luke was a follower / taught by Paul - he like Paul never met Jesus - obviously mentioned in Mark & Matthew - goes back to was Jesus sacrificed - God clearly states he does not like sacrifice. YET HE SHOULD SACRIFICE JESUS


Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: ***I desire mercy, not sacrifice*** For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Psalm 40:6 - 6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire but my ears you have opened burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Deuteronomy 12:31 - 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3)

Ezekiel 23:36-37 - 36 The LORD said to me: “Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, 37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; ***they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, as food for them***

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that Jesus did
in fact mention a new covenant despite your claim to the contrary.

 

[Mem]

Luke 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

yet at 20 Jesus allegedly takes the cup again.

Luke was a follower / taught by Paul - he like Paul never met Jesus - obviously mentioned in Mark & Matthew - goes back to was Jesus sacrificed - God clearly states he does not like sacrifice. YET HE SHOULD SACRIFICE JESUS


Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: ***I desire mercy, not sacrifice*** For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Psalm 40:6 - 6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire but my ears you have opened burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Deuteronomy 12:31 - 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3)

Ezekiel 23:36-37 - 36 The LORD said to me: “Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, 37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; ***they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, as food for them***

God has provided the only acceptable sacrifice, why then would he require any more, especially any that could never meet the perfect qualifications anyway? Muslims are permitted to lie for whatever reason, and deceive for whatever purpose, I'm not that studied in the protocol. But I understand they cannot ever be sure of their spiritual status? Is that true?

 

[Magenta]

God has provided the only acceptable sacrifice, why then would he require any more, especially
any that could never meet the perfect qualifications anyway? Muslims are permitted to lie for
whatever reason, and deceive for whatever purpose, I'm not that studied in the protocol.
But I understand they cannot ever be sure of their spiritual status? Is that true?

Yes, taqiya is an approved practice within Islam of lying for the cause of advancing the spread of Islam.

And yes also to the fact that the only assurance of salvation within Islam is granted to those who
commit jihad and sacrifice themselves while killing others, also for the cause of the spread of Islam.

Young men who commit to this path are lured with the promise of virgins they can perpetually ravish in paradise.