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Feb 5, 2023
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Two ways to view it:
The world is coming to an end...give up.
The world is coming to a beginning...get busy.

I like the second perspective.
When everything is as God wills who would we be fighting when the adversary, our adversary, can do nothing without God's permission?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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What the OT Prophets had at that time were the TYPES and SHADOWS that all pointed to the one true Redeemer. If they understood the purpose of the types and shadows, then they understood the Redeemer and His necessary coming. They understood the temporary nature of their sacrifices - pushing all things forward to Christ's day. Perhaps these things are best summed up in these verses:

John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he sent, him ye believe not.
John 5:39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me;
John 5:40 and ye will not come to me, that ye may have life.


The OT Prophets may not have known Jesus by name but they knew there was a coming Redeemer, the Anointed one of God and probably understood that only God could appease God's Justice.

Hence, as you pointed out, Jesus our Lord was and is the Word. Therefore, believing the Truth of God, is the same as believing in Jesus. Since Jesus and the Word are one and the same. The truth points to Christ and the truth is Christ. And Scripture clearly states, that we must worship God in Spirit and Truth. also, the Truth takes center stage with the lost:

2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness


So I think one could say, that the OT Saints believing in God's Word, was reckoned as believing in Jesus the Christ.
“What the OT Prophets had at that time were the TYPES and SHADOWS that all pointed to the one true Redeemer”

well No that’s what we have in scripture

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That actually happened brother the earth we dwell On was created by God.

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This actually happened God created mans body and breathed the spirit of life into man and man became a living soul

What I’m saying is this is Jesus but he’s hidden in the scriptures we have


“And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not that Jesus wasn’t always The lord it’s that Moses five books have a veil over them and he’s hidden

What I’m saying is now that we have the gospel we can view that like this knowing his name

“Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:27-29‬ ‭

In the ot when you have a reference to the Lord God , your talking about Jesus but it’s intentionally hiding his name and doctrine until the appointed time of redemption

See this is how Abraham related to God

“And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Lord, ( as addressing one )

if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

…. And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. ( speaking as one )

And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.

And the LORD said, ( as of one ) Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now,( as of one ) and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men turned their faces( as of two ) from thence, and went toward Sodom:

but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. ( one )And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

….And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭18:1-3, 9-10, 16-17, 20-23, 33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See we’re talking about before God chose Moses four hundred years after this time the only way for Israel to relate to God is through Moses and his law because they requested it

before that you have Abraham’s relationship with Jesus but it’s not written about for us until you hear the gospel Enoch , Noah , Moses , Elijah , David they all believed in Jesus thousands of years before he came because God said it was going to happen

We believe two thousand years after because God said it would happen

Jesus is the creator those things just aren’t there to teach us the gospel it’s a record of mankind’s relationship with God and why we need salvation

enoch walked with Jesus He did this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s just that we don’t ever hear what he believed because it’s hidden we only see that they called upon his name , we’re upright and obedient men faithful and preached about righteousness ( which is the gospel ) they walked with him and were translated

enoch , Noah Abraham all were approved of God and are elders of his eternal kingdom
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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I am not really sure why you branched off here from the subject under discussion to get into Soteriology? I know your views and I think you know mine.
I have no clue what soteriology is

Im saying if a person knows a lot of scripture or of they only know a little bit makes a huge difference in what they believe and are going to be willing to hear and believe
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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When everything is as God wills who would we be fighting when the adversary, our adversary, can do nothing without God's permission?
I'm not fighting. I'm savoring victory in Jesus. We are more than conquerors. Why would I choose to live defeated?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
I'm sorry wattie, but this doesn't seem to be going anywhere. On top of that I don't understand your reluctance to acknowledge the Universal aspect of our Lord's assembly. What kind of point are you trying to make here?
The point is.. when we talk about 'the church'

We gotta define what that it is first. It's not enough just to say 'the church needs to address poverty '

Which church?

Every believer.. as an entity can do nothing. It doesn't meet, has no ordinances, commands nothing.

So it would be better to say the churches in this area need to doing such and such..

Or ' every church needs to take a hard look at itself..' etc..

A local church can do much.. and is commissioned to do much by Jesus.

Every believer as an entity is an unwieldy, divided , unassembled mass that would be an absolute nightmare to seek unity in.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Hebrews 13:14~ This world is not our home...
:)
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16, 39-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I was just teasing with the phrase the Isaiah card. But what names a person uses for God is very telling of a person's relationship to God.
God's names have very specific meaning and are sometimes given by a child of God to God after an experience with God. Thus, the name reflects a fuller understanding of who God is.
You have probably prayed with many people. No doubt you have thought some had a much deeper understanding of God and a more intimate relationship with Him based on the earnestness and substance of their prayer. And that was partially conveyed to you by the intimacy of the names they chose for God.
I find myself sharing about something I can only speculate about and so am only sharing what seems right to me. If someone else understands differently, I'm not saying they are wrong, merely that I see it differently.
To me, He is my Husband, the LORD of Hosts, my Maker (Isaiah 54:5). May I ask, What is the Name you chose for God?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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To me, He is my Husband, the LORD of Hosts, my Maker (Isaiah 54:5). May I ask, What is the Name you chose for God?
Romans 8:15...For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but we have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father...