Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#5,741
Mar 1, 2022
18,897
6,491
113
62
#5,741
Everlasting-Grace said:
elect according to foreknowledge (omniscience)
far to many places in scripture says we come to God when we believe, and we do not come to God because of unbelief.

In jesus own words, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not is condemned already because they have not believed.

If calvinism is factually, these words are meaningless. In fact the whol second part of john 3 is nonsensical. Which I assume is why no one wants to go through and see what it really says
Click to expand...
The opposite is actually true. People believe when God comes to them.

Did Noah seek out God?
Did Abraham seek out God?
Did Moses seek out God?

Romans 3...there is none that seek after God...
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,742
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,742
Cameron143 said:
It doesn't answer my question. I know that God is omniscient.
I'm asking about the foreknowledge of God. According to the Bible, does the foreknowledge of God concern itself with WHAT God foreknew or WHO God foreknew?
Click to expand...
I already answered you

what was the will of the father in heaven

that everyone who sees and believes will be raised on the last day and non of them will be lost

That is the gospel message and the basis of election.

God KNEW who these people would be..
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#5,743
Mar 1, 2022
18,897
6,491
113
62
#5,743
Everlasting-Grace said:
Amen

And what draws people to God. What are we told to do to draw people to God?

Wait till God makes them alive, Or be a light shining in darkness so they can see their way to the light. and be saved..
Click to expand...
God draws people to Himself.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#5,744
Jul 13, 2021
3,645
565
113
#5,744
Everlasting-Grace said:
whats the difference?

If God elected them before the foundation of the world. Then chose them over a million other people. to make alive,

then something must occure that caused them to be saved.
Click to expand...
They were covered by Christ's offering. At a time of God choosing, those covered by it, are taken from under
the law of sin and death and are placed under law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,745
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,745
Cameron143 said:
The issue isn't belief or unbelief. The issue is who is the cause of the belief.
Click to expand...
Thats not what Jesus said

He did not say the cause of belief is not condmened, and the cause of unbelieve is condemned already

COndemnation is hell my friend, it is eternal death

ONLY faith and those who see and believe are not condemned..
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,746
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,746
Cameron143 said:
God draws people to Himself.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws.
Click to expand...
Yep

But God does not force..

Many are called but few are chosen.. He is willing that non should perish.

God draws in many ways, but we still have to make a decision.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,747
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,747
rogerg said:
They were covered by Christ's offering. At a time of God choosing, those covered by it, are taken from under
the law of sin and death and are placed under law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...
then they were saved the moment jesus said it was finished.

They should have been born alive, not dead.


this is why I can not see it your way..
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,748
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,748
Cameron143 said:
The opposite is actually true. People believe when God comes to them.

Did Noah seek out God?
Did Abraham seek out God?
Did Moses seek out God?

Romans 3...there is none that seek after God...
Click to expand...
Was noah born again?
Was Abraham born again?
Was Moses born again?

When God went to abraham, Could abraham have said no?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#5,749
Mar 1, 2022
18,897
6,491
113
62
#5,749
Everlasting-Grace said:
I already answered you

what was the will of the father in heaven

that everyone who sees and believes will be raised on the last day and non of them will be lost

That is the gospel message and the basis of election.

God KNEW who these people would be..
Click to expand...
Almost right. Not God knew...God chose.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#5,751
Jul 13, 2021
3,645
565
113
#5,751
Cameron143 said:
The opposite is actually true. People believe when God comes to them.

Did Noah seek out God?
Did Abraham seek out God?
Did Moses seek out God?

Romans 3...there is none that seek after God...
Click to expand...
Saul (Paul) too.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#5,754
Mar 1, 2022
18,897
6,491
113
62
#5,754
Everlasting-Grace said:
Was noah born again?
Was Abraham born again?
Was Moses born again?

When God went to abraham, Could abraham have said no?
Click to expand...
The reason He went was because He was bringing him life. God didn't go to anyone else in Ur. How many of them were redeemed? How many of them sought God out?

Consider Adam. Before sin, he walked daily with God. After sin, he hid from God. It took God going to him, sacrificing on his behalf, and clothing him in righteousness before he walked with God again. When God makes Himself known, He is already at work saving the person.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,756
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,756
Cameron143 said:
The reason He went was because He was bringing him life. God didn't go to anyone else in Ur. How many of them were redeemed? How many of them sought God out?
Click to expand...
How many? I do not know. I was not there. Were you?

Consider Adam. Before sin, he walked daily with God. After sin, he hid from God. It took God going to him, sacrificing on his behalf, and clothing him in righteousness before he walked with God again. When God makes Himself known, He is already at work saving the person.
Click to expand...
yep. But adam still had to humble himself and say yes to God.. He could have said no thank you
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,758
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#5,758
rogerg said:
Huh?
Click to expand...
If Saul could not say no,

then God forced him

Thank you for proving me right..

I think it is time to move on.. talk about more important things, like the eternal security found only in Christ. The op has failed to disprove OSAS. I am still waiting for his proof.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.