Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Pilgrimshope · Feb 12, 2023

he will lose none who hear and follow him right ?

It’s actually a repetitive teaching he uses different words several times to make the point our place is to hear and believe and accept the gospel and his word is that he will save us

We can’t erase our part though

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

None of those will be lost right ? In other words those sheep are actually believers the people

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those who hear and follow Jesus for absolute sure won’t perish and shall be saved

But they have to hear the gospel , believe and follow after thier shepherd that’s what identifies his “ sheep” the recognize the shepherds voice and follow where he leads them

Pilgrimshope · Feb 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

have you ever read Paul’s epistles ? If so would you say he knew a lot more than Jesus died and rose ?

and if not you should read one of them from beginning to end

apparently he was always repeatedly teaching then this too

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ButterflyJones · Feb 12, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

But, they cannot do that in their natural mind because the things of God are foolishness to that mind. God must intercede first.

When apostles , missionaries, go into all the world today, that is how God calls his sheep.
The shepherd calls them by changing their natural mind to understand and heed his invitation.

Sheep only come when their shepherds voice is heard.
They ignore anyone else who calls.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

We change as Christians because our mind was changed.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

reneweddaybyday · Feb 13, 2023

brightfame52 said:

nope ... you conflate the Gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom which causes you to be blind to the truth written in Scripture.

I have shown you Scripture which indicates the Gospel is not the mystery and you reject that truth in your futile attempt to support your dogma.

I have shown you that God has revealed the Gospel in all of Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation. God never hid the Gospel, yet God hid the mystery, the hidden wisdom from the foundation of the world until He revealed it to Paul after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven where He sits at the right hand of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.

I have shown you that it is satan who, throughout all history, has attempted to hide the Gospel, and in your insistence that the Gospel is the mystery, you make satan more powerful than the Gospel ... yet Scripture reveals the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

I have shown you that satan did not know the mystery, the hidden wisdom and if he had known it, he would not have crucified the Lord of glory ... which is why God hid the mystery, the hidden wisdom in Himself from the beginning of the world.

1 Corinthians 2:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

You reject the truth of Scripture ... you suppress the truth in unrighteousness just as is written in Rom 1:18. Have at it, brightfame52, I will not join you in your folly.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

brightfame52 · Feb 13, 2023

pilgrimshope

Which are them He died for, the Sheep. If we never do these things, He didnt die for us and Justify us.

brightfame52 · Feb 13, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Yeah I have read Pauls letters. So 1 Cor 2:14 the Natural man cannot understand the Gospel, the preaching of the cross because those things must be spiritually judged, yet the natural man doesnt have the Spirit.

brightfame52 · Feb 13, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Again 1 Cor 2:1-16 declares the natural man cannot understand the things of God, the Testimony of God, which is the Gospel, because these matters must be spiritually discerned 1 Cor 2:14

Jesus says the same thing but in different terminology when He says Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

A man must be born again to understand the things of the Kingdom, which is the Gospel

reneweddaybyday · Feb 13, 2023

brightfame52 said:

your erroneous dogma falls apart as 1 Corinthians 2:8 states that if satan had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, he would never have crucified the Lord of glory ... yet satan knew the Gospel because God's Word tells us in 2 Cor 4:4 it is satan who tries to hide the gospel ... so God contradicts Himself since satan knew the Gospel and crucified the Lord Jesus Christ anyway ...

your erroneous dogma falls apart because Scripture tells us the mystery, the hidden wisdom was not made known prior to God revealing it to Paul (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:4-5, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26).

you've got Scripture contradicting Scripture in your insistence that the Gospel is the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

You've got the Lord Jesus Christ proclaiming that which was hidden in God until it was revealed to Paul after the death, resurrection, ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven.

You've got satan hiding something about which he knew nothing (either that or God can't hide anything from satan).

so sad you don't trust God enough to let go of your error ...

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

brightfame52 · Feb 13, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Again, the natural man has no capacity to understand the Gospel, it must be spiritually understood 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Paul says neither can he know them, that speaks to inability. Sorry

ButterflyJones · Feb 13, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

nope ... you conflate the Gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom which causes you to be blind to the truth written in Scripture.

I have shown you Scripture which indicates the Gospel is not the mystery and you reject that truth in your futile attempt to support your dogma.

I have shown you that God has revealed the Gospel in all of Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation. God never hid the Gospel, yet God hid the mystery, the hidden wisdom from the foundation of the world until He revealed it to Paul after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven where He sits at the right hand of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.

I have shown you that it is satan who, throughout all history, has attempted to hide the Gospel, and in your insistence that the Gospel is the mystery, you make satan more powerful than the Gospel ... yet Scripture reveals the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

I have shown you that satan did not know the mystery, the hidden wisdom and if he had known it, he would not have crucified the Lord of glory ... which is why God hid the mystery, the hidden wisdom in Himself from the beginning of the world.

1 Corinthians 2:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

You reject the truth of Scripture ... you suppress the truth in unrighteousness just as is written in Rom 1:18. Have at it, brightfame52, I will not join you in your folly.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

That I may understand you there. Are you saying if Satan understood why Jesus was here he would not have had Jesus crucified?

brightfame52 · Feb 16, 2023

Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Jesus once said as the Head of the Church, Jn 14:19

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

We know Christ Lives from the Testimony of scripture of His Resurrection, its a Gospel Truth 1 Cor 15:5-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

In fact, if He had not risen, it means that those He died for are yet in their sins 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Now Christ being raised from the dead, after having been delivered to death for our sins, He rose again for Our Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Which resurrection/raising again is Life, Jesus said once again Jn 11:25

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life

Now the Justification in Rom 5:18 is that which is stated in Rom 4:25, and through and by that Resurrection, Life is communicated to the Justified, which are all men for whom He was delivered for their offences/sins .

This Life is communicated to them, in so much as the Head Lives, the Body Must Live.

Since the Head rose from the Dead with Resurrection Life, the members of His Body must also, or the Heads Resurrection was for nought, fruitless.

Life results from Justification, which is why Jesus rose from the dead, after having been condemned to death for our sins, when Justice for the condemned was satisfied, proof was resurrection from the dead, Life, when Christ was given life from the dead, it was a pledge that all whom He represented shall be given Life from the dead, because they were Justified to Life. Life results from Justification because Justification is Righteousness. The word for Justification in both Rom 5:18;4:25 is dikaiósis and means:

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal

God Honors Righteousness with Life Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

Gill writes on this verse:

In the way of righteousness is life,.... The life of the soul, or spiritual life, as Aben Ezra; and eternal life, as Gersom. One that is in the true way of righteousness is one that is instilled by the righteousness of Christ, which justification is the justification of life: such an one is made alive, and reckons himself alive in a law sense; and enjoys true spiritual peace and comfort, arising from the love and favour of God, and acceptance with him, in which he sees his interest, and in which is life; and this righteousness, by which he is justified before God, entitles him to eternal life; to which the path of holiness, he is directed and enabled to walk in, leads; though it is a narrow way, and a strait gate, Matthew 7:14. Christ, and righteousness and holiness in and by him, are the way, the truth, and the life, or the true way to eternal life; and all in this way now live spiritually, and shall live eternally, John 14:6;

One cannot be one for whom Christ died, and not receive Justification of Life, that would mean that the Resurrection was a farce, and those Christ died for are yet still in their sins ! 1 Cor 15:17 ! 16

brightfame52 · Feb 21, 2023

Because He Lives, we shall Live !

Jesus once said as the Head of the Church, Jn 14:19

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Jesus here is Speaking as the Head of His Body the Church. Because He Lives speaks of His Resurrection from the dead after having giving Himself for His Body the Church Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

And He is the Saviour of the Body, His Church Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

The Body and the Church are the same. He is the Saviour of the Body, and because the Head Lives, the Body must Live also, or something has went wrong, has aborted !

The Head was delivered from Death, so must the Body be also. This answers the Prophecy we have in Isa 26:19

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Christ's Body the Church, was dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

When we [The Body, Church] were dead in sins, God quickened us together with Christ [Our Head and Saviour] !

The Body is made alive and lives because its Head was made alive to Live !

Jesus as the risen Head says Rev 1:18

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rev 2:8

And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Jesus speaking metaphorically says of His Body the Church, His Temple Jn 2:19-21

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

We understand that His Body the Church, is also the Temple of God Eph 2:21

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The Church is His Body Eph 1:22-23

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The Church is His Temple Eph 2:21

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1 Cor 3:16

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Because He Lives, He builds His Temple, raises it up Acts 15:16

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

This is the fulfillment of Amos 9:11 where it reads raise up instead of build again 11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Its the same word used in Isa 26:19

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Because the Head Lives, so must His Body Live, His Body with all of its individual members 1 Cor 12:12

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

rogerg · Feb 21, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Only those who have been born-again (the elect) can and do hear and follow because it is God who moves/directs them to do so.
God does not do that for everyone - only for His elect. Only of His sheep does God make to hear and follow - the reverse is incorrect.

[Jhn 6:45 KJV] 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[Jhn 10:26 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

reneweddaybyday · Feb 24, 2023

brightfame52 said:

1 Corinthians 2:14 refers to the mystery, the hidden wisdom, which you insist is the Gospel ... even though you have been shown that the mystery the hidden wisdom is not the Gospel.

brightfame52 said:

Tell that to God ... it's His Word you're manipulating in your futile attempt to support your dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
.

reneweddaybyday · Feb 24, 2023

ButterflyJones said:

satan knew why the Lord Jesus Christ was here. God never hid that fact from satan. God told satan in Genesis 3 that his head would be crushed.

Demons recognized the Lord Jesus Christ and were aware of their demise ... even knowing that when Christ walked the earth was not the "time" of their torment:

Matthew 8:

28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

I am saying that the Gospel is not the same as the mystery, the hidden wisdom.
.

reneweddaybyday · Feb 25, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Jesus was not "Head of the Church" at the time He told His disciples:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

When Jesus spoke those words to His disciples, He knew He was on His way to His crucifixion, which is where He humbled Himself:

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

When Jesus spoke those words to His disciples, Jesus was not yet set at the right hand of the Father:

Ephesians 1:

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Before the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven, there was no "Church" as revealed in the Church epistles.

brightfame52 said:

"Life is communicated to the Justified" ... you're just making stuff up.

quit ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

The born again one is justified by faith.

The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead was a proclamation that He was the Son of God with power:

Romans 1:

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

Eternal life is in the Lord Jesus Christ and when a person believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he/she has eternal life:

1 John 5:

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

If you do not believe, you make God a liar because you do not believe the record God gave of His Son.
.

reneweddaybyday · Feb 25, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Jesus was not "speaking metaphorically" of "His Body the Church" in John 2:19-21.

Read the next verse, brightfame52. Jesus was speaking literally of the resurrection of His body 3 days after His crucifixion.

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Feb 25, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

1 Cor 2:14 pertains to the things of the Spirit of God, Spiritual things such as the Gospel is, so the natural man cannot understand the Gospel, the Cross of Christ.

brightfame52 · Feb 25, 2023

renewed

False Jesus has always been the Head of His Body the Church, from the Creation of the world, Adam and Eve were patterned in Creation after Christ and His Church Eph 5:29-32

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

All for whom Christ died, they were Justified to life Rom 5:18 and Rom 4:25 shows that His death Justified them since He was raised from the dead for [because of] their Justification. Now being Justified they are given life, spiritual life.

brightfame52 · Feb 25, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Yes Jesus spoke metaphorically Matt 11:7-15

There was a prophecy stating elijah shall come, Now Jesus said John the Baptist fulfilled that Prophecy, but not physically, He is speaking metaphorically, John the Baptist wasn't literally Elijah. So you speak foolishly and unlearnedly about Jesus not speaking metaphorically.

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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