And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[GRACE_ambassador]

Would you explain what Sheol Hades Hell and Gehenna are and what the Lake of Fire is and in the context of Revelation which is written in symbolic language?

This may be of help:

Hell, Sheol, Hades...

 

[Runningman]

That's dangerous misinformation you are spreading, dangerous for you and for someone new that doesn't know much about the scripture.

I make it a point to eventually tell all people new to the faith that eternal conscious torment isn't a Biblically viable doctrine for all of the unsaved.

Fortunately, protestant Christianity has done much of the work for me on this part, so I thank you all a bit, because many non-Christians already know about John 3:16 where it says:

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Those who don't believe perish and don't get the eternal life promised only to believers. Very plain. Very simple. Doesn't require any explanation or jumping through hoops to explain away because it doesn't need changing. It directly states what happens if they don't believe which is that they perish as in they are destroyed.

 

[HeIsHere]

Perishing means perishing, not existing.

Mission Impossible was correct.

It is a deterioration.

To "not exist" they way you mean it would mean no matter, or energy that is definitely not what was meant in the Greek.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Those who don't believe perish and don't get the eternal life promised only to believers. Very plain. Very simple. Doesn't require any explanation or jumping through hoops to explain away because it doesn't need changing. It directly states what happens if they don't believe which is that they perish as in they are destroyed.

Obviously you did not dig deep enough and failed to understand "perish" as used by God. It is equivalent to eternal damnation. Go to Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. But above all see every Scripture that speaks of eternal damnation. Does the Bible speak of eternal damnation? Absolutely.

THESE ARE THE WORDS OF CHRIST
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:29)

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

So now we have a few here (including Runningman) who prefer to broadcast Fake News to those who should be told the truth. Just keep in mind that you will give account for misleading others.

Annihilationism is a doctrine of devils, and only the cults teach this nonsense, along with Soul Sleep and a few (many?) other false doctrines.

 

[Runningman]

Obviously you did not dig deep enough and failed to understand "perish" as used by God. It is equivalent to eternal damnation. Go to Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. But above all see every Scripture that speaks of eternal damnation. Does the Bible speak of eternal damnation? Absolutely.

THESE ARE THE WORDS OF CHRIST
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:29)

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

So now we have a few here (including Runningman) who prefer to broadcast Fake News to those who should be told the truth. Just keep in mind that you will give account for misleading others.

Eternal eternal damnation would be a judgement against someone with the consequences being of eternal effect. That's what being destroyed or put to death is - complete irreversible, eternal, punishment.

James 4:12
12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Annihilationism is a doctrine of devils, and only the cults teach this nonsense

Jesus taught God can destroy both soul and body in hell. It sounds like you're talking bad about God now.

Matthew 10
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus taught God can destroy both soul and body in hell. It sounds like you're talking bad about God now.

Since you understand none of this, you would be better off saying nothing more. You are simply ignorant about this subject.

 

[VARob]

Mission Impossible was correct.

I don't know what you mean.

It is a deterioration.

At death, the person is dead and the body begins to deteriorate.

To "not exist" they way you mean it would mean no matter, or energy that is definitely not what was meant in the Greek.

When a person dies, their life is gone and their body eventually disintegrates back to dust.

 

[Runningman]

Since you understand none of this, you would be better off saying nothing more. You are simply ignorant about this subject.

Do you fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell?

 

[CS1]

Would you explain what Sheol Hades Hell and Gehenna are and what the Lake of Fire is in the context of Revelation which is written in symbolic language?

hell is as real as the devil himself. if there is not well then the judgment of God is not to be feared live your life and when you died you cease to exist and that is all that will happen to you. False teaching and lies from the pit of hell. mostly created by those who think Jesus is not God and use human reasoning to to explain spiritual things.

 

[Denis1011]

I make it a point to eventually tell all people new to the faith that eternal conscious torment isn't a Biblically viable doctrine for all of the unsaved.

Fortunately, protestant Christianity has done much of the work for me on this part, so I thank you all a bit, because many non-Christians already know about John 3:16 where it says:

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Those who don't believe perish and don't get the eternal life promised only to believers. Very plain. Very simple. Doesn't require any explanation or jumping through hoops to explain away because it doesn't need changing. It directly states what happens if they don't believe which is that they perish as in they are destroyed.

Yes you did mention it, but that doesn't make anything you said better.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night FOREVER AN EVER. Revelation 20:10

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15


So from reading it this way we see that the Devil, False Prophet, the Beast and everyone who is not in the book of life (and actually has a spirit or is one) will be thrown in the lake of fire to suffer eternally. However Death and Hades are thrown in the lake of fire symbolically. If Satan will be tormented eternally non believers will be also. As much as Satan has sined against God people have also. We are as guilty as Satan is because we are capable of unspeakable evil on our own and we have demonstrated this since the day we were created . Just think about all the evil things in history that no one else but WE did and then say to me that there is no eternal suffer. Our God is angry and our God is a God of vengeance.

 

[SACREDWARRIOR]

How many times have we heard 'those who are not saved' will suffer ETERNAL TORMENT in the lake of fire? Would you believe that is NOT WRITTEN anywhere? I remember the first time I found out, I WAS angry, upset, incensed. Even people who know NOTHING else, seem to all know that. I was about to learn yet ANOTHER lesson...that 'meat' is so hard to chew sometimes especially when all you know is milk.


Rev 20:10 tells us

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Hopefully all can agree what we read here is

The Devil has been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

the lake of fire and brimstone is where the false prophet and the beast were cast.

AND THE DEVIL shall be tormented forever,


Do we know anything else from what is written here? I don't, do you?


When we began to learn the words of God we learned,

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

the wicked PERISH, by being consumed, turned into smoke, ascend up and away

No mention of eternal suffering in the lake of fire.

SO WHERE did it come from?

It didn't come from here
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

IN the presence of the Lamb and the holy angels, WOULD REQUIRE THEY BE WATCHED FOREVER, if indeed they were to NOT BE CONSUMED but again

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


WE know from the PSALM that the wicked perish BY BEING consumed into smoke. Here AGAIN, we are told THE SMOKE of their torment goes up for ever and ever.

Is there ANY CONSCIOUSNESS IN SMOKE? No.


Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


So we see SPECIFICALLY who 'for ever and ever, day and night' is referring to. If we go past this and APPLY it to souls, IS THAT GODS TRUTH or our own?

I believe it would be our own because when you combine that information with

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.



Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


I can't find a single verse that states souls themselves will be tormented, just the smoke left from the consuming of them, which ascends up forever.

Have I missed any important SCRIPTURES, anything WRITTEN that changes any of this THAT isn't just conjecture or assumption?

[Rev 20:14-15 NASB95] 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Funkus]

I think it's quite simple:
If God is love, according to scripture, then the literalist concept of hell is alien to that, and an aberration. Because it is not love
Thus, those who believe in such a literalist idea are forced to re-interpret what love is - a fools errand!
It's interesting that they would rather sacrifice love and that is easier for them to do, point noted - they have missed the point

Instead, to conceive that divine justice in in accordance with love, is enough...that is all we need to know
Literal understandings of scripture, while appearing correct could be all wrong - and they were the authors best guess
We are guided by a Spirit that gives us better information

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I think it's quite simple:

Yes, the Simplicity Of Christ (Guided By The Spirit) Is Wonderful LOVE, for
those who have "faith, pleasing God" = All the Law is fulfilled In:

"One Word: Love thy neighbor as thyself!"​

(Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)​

​

But, we, in simplicity, must Also Literally Forewarn those "Without faith,
it is impossible to please [The Holy & JUST] God," (Heb 11:6), Correct?

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)! + RICH Blessings

 

[WillB]

Indeed, a lot of things in Revelation are allegorical. But not all are. The lake of fire is not. It may not be only literal fire, but in general, the total absence of God's love and "outer darkness" (Matthew 8:12).

Amen.

You have said that "a lot of things in Revelation are allegorical....the Lake of Fire is not."

If you accept the premise that Scripture explains Scripture can you give a Scripture based argument for you assertion about the Lake of Fire?

 

[WillB]

This may be of help:

Hell, Sheol, Hades...

No. It does not assist in t

hell is as real as the devil himself. if there is not well then the judgment of God is not to be feared live your life and when you died you cease to exist and that is all that will happen to you. False teaching and lies from the pit of hell. mostly created by those who think Jesus is not God and use human reasoning to to explain spiritual things.

But will you be specific about Hell? What is Hell? Is it a real place i.e. a geographical location? What is the difference,if any, between Hell, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna?

 

[NilsForChrist]

I think it's quite simple:
If God is love, according to scripture, then the literalist concept of hell is alien to that, and an aberration. Because it is not love
Thus, those who believe in such a literalist idea are forced to re-interpret what love is - a fools errand!
It's interesting that they would rather sacrifice love and that is easier for them to do, point noted - they have missed the point

Instead, to conceive that divine justice in in accordance with love, is enough...that is all we need to know
Literal understandings of scripture, while appearing correct could be all wrong - and they were the authors best guess
We are guided by a Spirit that gives us better information

I know a brother from Germany who believes universal reconcilation, he believes everyone may repent one day... but I don't believe that. What I would add tho that the Lake of Fire is not seperation from God (Revelation 14:9-10), only seperation from His mercy and love.

The main problem with Annihilation is that it would give people who reject God their will - just ceasing to exist after death.

 

[CS1]

No. It does not assist in t


But will you be specific about Hell? What is Hell? Is it a real place i.e. a geographical location? What is the difference,if any, between Hell, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna?

first off Sheol is the grave which is the first death we all suffer because of sin Jesus died once and for all sin even though he did not sin. Context is important Jesus was describing the literal place of Hell and what it is like and he used Gehenna as His Visual aid while teaching the reality of hell. after a physical death which we all will experience than the judgment.

 

[CS1]

No. It does not assist in t


But will you be specific about Hell? What is Hell? Is it a real place i.e. a geographical location? What is the difference,if any, between Hell, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna?

already answered this you need to keep things in context

 

[WillB]

I know a brother from Germany who believes universal reconcilation, he believes everyone may repent one day... but I don't believe that. What I would add tho that the Lake of Fire is not seperation from God (Revelation 14:9-10), only seperation from His mercy and love.

The main problem with Annihilation is that it would give people who reject God their will - just ceasing to exist after death.

It does rather sound like you want those who reject God to suffer eternal torture in the Lake of Fire. Is that really just? Even IF a sinner lived for, say, 1,000 years and committed sins wilfully, is it justice to burn him for eternity?

first off Sheol is the grave which is the first death we all suffer because of sin Jesus died once and for all sin even though he did not sin. Context is important Jesus was describing the literal place of Hell and what it is like and he used Gehenna as His Visual aid while teaching the reality of hell. after a physical death which we all will experience than the judgment.

Now that's all very interesting but I - and I dare say others following this thread - am looking for something more solid than speculative interpretations of Sheol, Hades, Hell, Gehenna. What I'm looking for - and given that you seem convince that your interpretation is correct and you therefore ought to be able to explain fully - is two things.

Firstly, you need to give Scriptural-based arguments for your interpretation.

Secondly, those arguments need to be supported by precisely accurate correct interpretations of the original meaning of the words Sheol Hades, Hell, Gehenna that are agreed upon by Biblical scholars.

 

[WillB]

already answered this you need to keep things in context

I'm not asking out of context e.g. I'm not asking those relevant questions in the context of the Wall Stree index. I'm asking those questions in the context of this subject thread.