Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

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Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#161
Mar 1, 2022
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#161
Magenta said:
I do not possess the level of goodness that you do... and I am well aware of my faults. I do know that when I became a believer, it turned my whole world upside down, and I had to throw over a lot of things to walk in the newness of life being a Christian entailed. Maybe not just a lot of things, but a great many things, including all my former beliefs about Christianity and people of faith, and the pursuits I had taken up before my conversion. Total transformation takes time, though it may happen faster for some. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly is how it was expressed in the 12 step program rooms which I habituated for many years over decades. That was in relation to the promises :)
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I possess no goodness. I am blessed that God is pleased to have Christ dwell richly in me.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#164
Jun 24, 2020
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#164
HeIsHere said:
How much works substantiates? :p:D
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Any at all.
As Spurgeon said: "A "Faith" that doesn't CHANGE a person, won't save them either" (since it's not "FAITH" at all). Different folks change at different rates.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#165
Mar 17, 2022
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#165
Runningman said:
Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, etc all said what I’m telling you. Simply put, faith without works is dead. James said it most concisely.

God bless.
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Your not explaining how a person is saved in the first place?

Of course, faith without fruit, works, is a dead or dormant faith.

How is someone saved?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#166
May 21, 2022
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#166
Bob-Carabbio said:
Any at all.
As Spurgeon said: "A "Faith" that doesn't CHANGE a person, won't save them either" (since it's not "FAITH" at all). Different folks change at different rates.
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So only a changed person is a saved person?

Seems like some of the people to whom James and Paul wrote had not changed much, in fact some went back to the law, and some were down right immoral, I guess their faith was not real according to Spurgeon, but Paul and James believed them to be saved and even wrote letters to them to exhort them to live in the law of liberty.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#167
May 21, 2022
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#167
Bob-Carabbio said:
Any at all.
As Spurgeon said: "A "Faith" that doesn't CHANGE a person, won't save them either" (since it's not "FAITH" at all). Different folks change at different rates.
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I might add, we cannot base our assurance of salvation on our attitude toward sin, nor on the fruit/CHANGE in our lives.
The Biblical passages on assurance all point back to believing in Jesus as Savior
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#168
Jun 24, 2020
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#168
HeIsHere said:
So only a changed person is a saved person?
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If you think it's possible for a person to be INDWELLED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT (which is what "salvation" is), and manifest/experience NO PERSONAL CHANGE, then I'd question what you think "salvation" is all about.

Seems like some of the people to whom James and Paul wrote had not changed much, in fact some went back to the law, and some were down right immoral, I guess their faith was not real according to Spurgeon, but Paul and James believed them to be saved and even wrote letters to them to exhort them to live in the law of liberty.
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People aren't PERFECT whether they're saved or not, and some folks have really BAD theology. But bottom line: No personal Change = No Salvation. How can a NEW CREATION IN CHRIST have no effect of that in their lives???
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#169
Jun 24, 2020
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#169
HeIsHere said:
The Biblical passages on assurance all point back to believing in Jesus as Savior
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Correction: HAVING FAITH in the sin offering of Jesus to cleanse you from your SIN. "Belief" doesn't get it. FAITH (Heb 11:1) gets the job done.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#170
May 21, 2022
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#170
Bob-Carabbio said:
If you think it's possible for a person to be INDWELLED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT (which is what "salvation" is), and manifest/experience NO PERSONAL CHANGE, then I'd question what you think "salvation" is all about.



People aren't PERFECT whether they're saved or not, and some folks have really BAD theology. But bottom line: No personal Change = No Salvation. How can a NEW CREATION IN CHRIST have no effect of that in their lives???
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Tell me why the Galatians went back to the law?

"Oh you foolish Galatians"

Seems like something went wrong, they had he Holy Spirit indwelling.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#171
May 21, 2022
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#171
Bob-Carabbio said:
Correction: HAVING FAITH in the sin offering of Jesus to cleanse you from your SIN. "Belief" doesn't get it. FAITH (Heb 11:1) gets the job done.
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If change were so automatic, I dare say there would be no need for all those letters traveling across the ancient world trying to help Christians get it right.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#172
Jun 24, 2020
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#172
HeIsHere said:
Tell me why the Galatians went back to the law?

"Oh you foolish Galatians"

Seems like something went wrong, they had he Holy Spirit indwelling.
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Could be that they were effected by some BAD teaching (even Peter was effected by it). Christians ain't PERFECT. Are YOU??

OF course, Following the LAW isn't a BAD THING - I haven't murdered anybody, nor Stolen, not had an affair with anybody's wife. The LAW is God's Will for man.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#173
Jun 24, 2020
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#173
HeIsHere said:
If change were so automatic, I dare say there would be no need for all those letters traveling across the ancient world trying to help Christians get it right.
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"Change is automatic", but remember, the new Christian doesn't know SPIT about the "Kingdom of God", since it's only suddenly become visible to them. Maturing takes time. But NO CHANGE?? Ain't happening.

You looking for a way out of obedience???
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#174
May 21, 2022
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#174
Bob-Carabbio said:
"Change is automatic", but remember, the new Christian doesn't know SPIT about the "Kingdom of God", since it's only suddenly become visible to them. Maturing takes time. But NO CHANGE?? Ain't happening.

You looking for a way out of obedience???
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No I am not. And yes it is true that change takes time.
Some people grow, some don't.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#175
May 21, 2022
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#175
Bob-Carabbio said:
Could be that they were effected by some BAD teaching (even Peter was effected by it). Christians ain't PERFECT. Are YOU??

OF course, Following the LAW isn't a BAD THING - I haven't murdered anybody, nor Stolen, not had an affair with anybody's wife. The LAW is God's Will for man.
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Definitely bad teaching is a problem that can cause people to not grow in the faith, having said that going under the law is a horrible thing, it nullifies grace.

Scripture is pretty clear on this.
 
A

Aussie52

Active member
#176
Aug 31, 2022
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#176
Bob-Carabbio said:
"Change is automatic", but remember, the new Christian doesn't know SPIT about the "Kingdom of God", since it's only suddenly become visible to them. Maturing takes time. But NO CHANGE?? Ain't happening.

You looking for a way out of obedience???
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Here we go again! Backloading salvation with works.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#177
Sep 23, 2014
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#177
Perhaps if these questions can be sufficiently answered, I would have a better understanding of faith and works.

What works did Abraham perform? How did he display his faith?
Abraham came within inches of killing Isaac. The fell swoop was well on its way in the intent to connect a knife with his son's heart.
Is this what counted toward Abraham as righteousness?
 
A

Aussie52

Active member
#178
Aug 31, 2022
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#178
Mem said:
Perhaps if these questions can be sufficiently answered, I would have a better understanding of faith and works.

What works did Abraham perform? How did he display his faith?
Abraham came within inches of killing Isaac. The fell swoop was well on its way in the intent to connect a knife with his son's heart.
Is this what counted toward Abraham as righteousness?
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No!
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#180
Sep 23, 2014
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#180
Aussie52 said:
No!
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Hebrews 11
17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac on the altar. He who had received the promises was ready to offer his one and only son,c 18even though God had said to him, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”d 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and in a sense, he did receive Isaac back from death.

Abraham received the promises of God's word which included, "Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned." So, he reasoned that Gjod could raise the dead, considering God's instruction that he offer his son upon the altar.

That action displayed his faith in God's word, rather than faith in the work (which by any other circumstance, human sacrifice is strictly forbidden in the law). So, God's word preceded Abraham's faith in God to fulfill His promises. In other words, God gave His word to Abraham and Abraham believed it.

And there is no one that God hasn't given His word to.
 
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