Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone
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I respectfully disagree with your understanding of scripture.
To say that you agree with the Bible or Jesus and then dissent from my understanding is to imply you are correct and I'm wrong and that I don't agree with scripture.
If a person is convicted of a crime, and is given a sentence, that person must pay that debt he owes to the judicial system. The only way he can get out of that is if someone who is innocent of the Crome, pays the debt for you. This is called redemption.
Once the debt is paid. You are said to be justified. A legal terms that means you are declaired innocent of the crime, because your debt was paid.
Until that debt is paid. You are still under the debt, and payment will be paid
The penalty of sin is death. The gift of God is life.
the price that was paid was redemption. The forgiveness of debt is called justification. You are deemed innocent, your debt “paid in full”
Unbtil you are justified, You are still under the penalty.. The penalty is death,
in no legal system that is a righteous system, is a person set free from his debt until that debt is paid.
So in no system can a person be released from the penalty, until that penalty is paid.
We are pardoned by the price of redemption Jesus paid.
Until that righteousness is imputed to us in justification. We are dead..
So until we are justified. WE AREE DEAD
Calvinism rejects this notion. And by this, Calvinism is in error..
You want to mock people who understand the legal system and how it walks. And call them virtual signaling or whatever it is.. And not discuss the word..
Then you just show me (at the very least) you are no different than most calvinist..
Once the debt is paid. You are said to be justified. A legal terms that means you are declaired innocent of the crime, because your debt was paid.
Until that debt is paid. You are still under the debt, and payment will be paid
The penalty of sin is death. The gift of God is life.
the price that was paid was redemption. The forgiveness of debt is called justification. You are deemed innocent, your debt “paid in full”
Unbtil you are justified, You are still under the penalty.. The penalty is death,
in no legal system that is a righteous system, is a person set free from his debt until that debt is paid.
So in no system can a person be released from the penalty, until that penalty is paid.
We are pardoned by the price of redemption Jesus paid.
Until that righteousness is imputed to us in justification. We are dead..
So until we are justified. WE AREE DEAD
Calvinism rejects this notion. And by this, Calvinism is in error..
You want to mock people who understand the legal system and how it walks. And call them virtual signaling or whatever it is.. And not discuss the word..
Then you just show me (at the very least) you are no different than most calvinist..
I showed you what jesus said
Jesus told us HOW we are born again
Unless you can tell me how jesus told nicodemus how a person is born again apart from faith in John 3. Then you can not sit there and tell me I am wrong..
I have given you multiple chances.. will you yourself listen?
I never said you were wrong. I said I disagreed with your understanding and shared why.
At any rate, thank you for sharing. Grace and peace.
Forgive me, When people of you start mocking others with things like virtual signally. Whatever that means, I get frustrated. Its sad people can not just discuss anymore
I left this chatroom awhile back because it got so bad..
The law never saved anyone...
A man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
No one alive is righteous before You... from Psalm 143:2
Acts 13:39
Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.
Romans 3:22
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Romans 9:30
What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
Galatians 3:11
Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
Galatians 3:24
So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
I agree with your conclusion but I wasn't mocking you. I was going to show you why it is the case that people argue and become so frustrated.
People don't care how much you know until they first know how much you care. Even if you are right, telling or implying someone is wrong isn't going to endear you to them. So most will just dig in to their current position, never hearing yours.
This leads to frustration for both parties who sincerely desire others to know God. Often tempers flare and arguments ensue.
Two things would help people:
1. A realization that while we are to plant and water, we can't make things grow. We are responsible for endeavor, not results.
2. God isn't always working everywhere. Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing.
One day Jesus is walking along and there were throngs of people around. Suddenly He stops. Why? Because virtue had left Him. He didn't do it so it must have been the Father. So He stopped to see what it is God was doing.
Another day He's walking along and He notices a man in a tree. He approaches the man. Why? Because Romans 3 says there are none who seek after God but this man went out of his way. He was seeking. God must be at work.
Not every conversation here is worth pursuing. Only the ones God is moving in.
Thanks for your time. Blessings.
Yes! Our works neither earn us salvation nor do they justify our salvation.
We know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called
according to His purpose. Some conversations may be a lost cause from the outset, because the
other really has no interest in what you have to offer, even when they ask you to provide proof
texts for your view, which you do, and they reject, even when they can provide none for theirs.
That would tell me that God isn't working. I would politely excuse myself from the conversation and pray for the individual and wait for another opportunity to engage.
It's not always easy. It requires us to actually follow Philippians 2:3..Let nothing be done through strife or vain glory, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than themselves...
I do agree that God works all things to our good, but all things includes our mistakes.
You are defending the Gospel, no one is regenerated and then saved.
Faith is not gifted to some and not others, in fact it is not a gift, salvation is the gift.
I have no problem defending this, I know it is true, there may be some grey areas in scripture this is not one of them
I hope you will stay, your voice is very appreciated.
I stop talking to such people for months at a time when it gets to the point of becoming apparent they are not interested in the Truth of God's Word, but only their own additions and skewed interpretations. It usually only takes a few days to get to that point. I see some people engaging each other for months on end, back and forth, each repeatedly declaring victory over the other. Seems very ego driven.
Of course
Nobody's perfect. Not even those who declare themselves to be right in all they say.Perhaps especially not them
When I see people in error, whether in belief or practice, it reminds me of myself and how many things I held wrongly and the patience so many people exercised towards me. So I pray for people knowing God must have had an army of saints praying for me. After praying for someone, it's hard to act contrary to their good. It nullifies your prayers.
I do not possess the level of goodness that you do... and I am well aware of my faults. I do know that when I became a believer, it turned my whole world upside down, and I had to throw over a lot of things to walk in the newness of life being a Christian entailed. Maybe not just a lot of things, but a great many things, including all my former beliefs about Christianity and people of faith, and the pursuits I had taken up before my conversion. Total transformation takes time, though it may happen faster for some. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly is how it was expressed in the 12 step program rooms which I habituated for many years over decades. That was in relation to the promises
AA Promises
If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.
We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
Self-seeking will slip away.
Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us
– sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.