Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

[Everlasting-Grace]

Perfection was required under the law, but not under grace. That’s the biggest difference between the old and new covenant. You have grace because of faith in Christ.

Grace wouldn’t be useful for perfect people, but it’s extremely useful for people who fail. A lot.

Being under grace doesn’t mean you just do nothing. You have grace because you are supposed to be doing something and occasionally failing.

If someone is not even trying to pursue righteousness, just sinning, and thinking they’re safe, it’s likely this person has fallen from grace and doesn’t even know it.

Perfection is required if your trying to work for it

We need grace BECAUSE we can’t earn it

You have works and grace intertwined and related. They are not..

if it is grace, it is no longer works. Paul did not stutter.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Making us alive is the inward work. Only live people can respond.
This is why many hear the same gospel message but few respond.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing is the result of being made alive.
Hearing must be given or people will not understand. I believe it's Matt 13 where Jesus explains speaking in parables to his disciples. He said they heard because it was given to them. To others it was not given and if it was given they would be converted also.

This is not true

We are dead because of sin.

we can;t be made alive until sin is removed.

That is called justification.

Justificatgion preceded new birth. We are made alive because we believe

 

[Cameron143]

It’s more nuanced than “you’re perfect and are now incapable of doing anything wrong” and I agree with you about perfection in a certain sense.

The catch is being under grace by remaining in Christ. Jesus showed us the way to be, what to do, and it pleased his Father. God, in turn, wants us to be like Jesus.

Jesus is both Lord and Savior, but also looking for people he isn’t ashamed to call a brother or sister. We’re disciples of Jesus and there’s still the expectation that, as his disciples, we’re going to practice and observe all he commanded; if we fail sometimes we aren’t abandoned, we’re never abandoned I might add, but if we walk away and stop following him, he won’t stop us, but we aren’t disciples anymore.

If one follows Christ, they’re under grace. If one doesn’t follow Christ, they’re not under grace. It’s as simple as that.

A couple of things for your consideration if you like.

While it is true that God wants us to be like Jesus, He has actually predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son...Romans 8:29...and is performing the task Himself...Philippians 2:13...for it is God at work in you, willing and doing of His good pleasure.

Incidentally, it is His promise to continue this work that He began until the day of Christ...Philippians 1:6...that eternal security is based on.

Just for your prayerful consideration.

 

[Runningman]

Perfection is required if your trying to work for it

We need grace BECAUSE we can’t earn it

You have works and grace intertwined and related. They are not..

if it is grace, it is no longer works. Paul did not stutter.

If you’re under grace then you’re not perfect, hence the requirement for grace.

Under the Law of Moses, there is no grace.

Galatians 5:4
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

You’re right Paul didn’t stutter, which is why he said this:

Galatians 5
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Which is why I am telling you to remain in God’s grace by walking in the Spirit, pursuing what’s good, righteous, and avoiding sin. If you don’t then you’re under the law and this happens:

Galatians 5
19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Cameron143]

This is not true

We are dead because of sin.

we can;t be made alive until sin is removed.

That is called justification.

Justificatgion preceded new birth. We are made alive because we believe

We are justified by Jesus' work at Calvary. It is His sacrifice in our place that allows God to be both just and Justifier...Romans 3:26...

 

[Magenta]

A couple of things for your consideration if you like.

While it is true that God wants us to be like Jesus, He has actually predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son...Romans 8:29...and is performing the task Himself...Philippians 2:13...for it is God at work in you, willing and doing of His good pleasure.

Incidentally, it is His promise to continue this work that He began until the day of Christ...Philippians 1:6...that eternal security is based on.

Just for your prayerful consideration.

Jesus' Words in John 6:65

 

[Runningman]

A couple of things for your consideration if you like.

While it is true that God wants us to be like Jesus, He has actually predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son...Romans 8:29...and is performing the task Himself...Philippians 2:13...for it is God at work in you, willing and doing of His good pleasure.

Incidentally, it is His promise to continue this work that He began until the day of Christ...Philippians 1:6...that eternal security is based on.

Just for your prayerful consideration.

Thank you and I read Romans 8:29 and it lead me here. So how do we become like Jesus? What better way to become like Jesus than to do what Jesus did to be Jesus?

Please consider this:


Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank you and I read Romans 8:29 and it lead me here. So how do we become like Jesus? What better way to become like Jesus than to do what Jesus did to be Jesus?

Please consider this:


Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

How can we make ourselves like Jesus? His beauty is in Who He is. Copying what He did doesn't change us. It merely has us conforming our will outwardly. We still haven't received the motivations of Jesus' heart. So though our outward behavior would look identical, we would still perform the task from a natural heart. This heart is described in Jeremiah as deceitful and wicked. Thus, all that we copied would still not be acceptable to God. Isaiah 64:6 describes it as filthy rags.

John 15 shows us how to live in the power of Christ. This I believe is what Paul was referring to when he said I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.

God's standard for acceptance is perfection. In Christ, we have His perfection.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank you and I read Romans 8:29 and it lead me here. So how do we become like Jesus? What better way to become like Jesus than to do what Jesus did to be Jesus?

Please consider this:


Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

The verses in Hebrews don't refer to sinless perfection. They refer to doing all that was necessary to become our High Priest.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If you’re under grace then you’re not perfect, hence the requirement for grace.

Under the Law of Moses, there is no grace.

Galatians 5:4
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

You’re right Paul didn’t stutter, which is why he said this:

Galatians 5
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Which is why I am telling you to remain in God’s grace by walking in the Spirit, pursuing what’s good, righteous, and avoiding sin. If you don’t then you’re under the law and this happens:

Galatians 5
19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You got it

So you CANT work enough to earn it. Yet that is what you preach.

There is two ways to heaven, the law (works) or grace (mercy and favor)

there is no other way

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We are justified by Jesus' work at Calvary. It is His sacrifice in our place that allows God to be both just and Justifier...Romans 3:26...

That is true

But we are justified through faith.

God will not force it on us. He wants us to trust him..

 

[Cameron143]

That is true

But we are justified through faith.

God will not force it on us. He wants us to trust him..

We are justified by the finished work of Calvary. If you believe that is imputed upon our exercise of faith that's one thing. If you think faithjustifies, I don't find that in scripture. Either way, I believe it comes prior.

 

[Inquisitor]

All I can say is read James 2.

You understand the letter that James wrote?

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

Saved by grace through faith and a perfect faith results from works.

Yet, the reason for salvation, that gift of eternal life, freely given to us whom believe in Jesus.

James 2:17
In the same way, faith also, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

An authentic faith has works, fruit, perseveres, e.t.c.

Still the song remains the same.

The reason for your election at all times is not from you.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[John146]

The faith of Jesus Christ justifies the believer! Does anyone here really have confidence in their own individual faith to justify you before a holy God who demands sinless perfection? Our job is to simply believe.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

But, ya'll go right ahead and continue trying to justify yourselves through your own faith.

 

[Inquisitor]

What's it take to be fruitful? Just being a Christian? Does it take discipleship? Knowing the word? Does it come automatically? Is one fruitful their entire life? If not, how could one be justified by the own works?

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is a gift from above, as is our salvation.

You must bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

But above all, an unconditional love towards others.

Which, if you check carefully, love is also one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Where does "my works" come into the equation of salvation?

Well it doesn't, salvation is a gift from God and freely given to those that believe.

There is a cosmic difference between Christ's act of reconciliation and your pathetic works, fruit, e.t.c.

Boast in Christ!

 

[Cameron143]

The faith of Jesus Christ justifies the believer! Does anyone here really have confidence in their own individual faith to justify you before a holy God who demands sinless perfection? Our job is to simply believe.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

But, ya'll go right ahead and continue trying to justify yourselves through your own faith.

The perfect life of Christ imputed to us and His substitutionary death applied to us satisfies both God's requirements of righteousness and wrath. That's what allows God to be just and justifier simultaneously.

 

[Runningman]

You got it

So you CANT work enough to earn it. Yet that is what you preach.

There is two ways to heaven, the law (works) or grace (mercy and favor)

there is no other way

Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, etc all said what I’m telling you. Simply put, faith without works is dead. James said it most concisely.

God bless.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, etc all said what I’m telling you. Simply put, faith without works is dead. James said it most concisely.

God bless.

Do any say our works create or provide faith?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We are justified by the finished work of Calvary. If you believe that is imputed upon our exercise of faith that's one thing. If you think faithjustifies, I don't find that in scripture. Either way, I believe it comes prior.

I believe what the Bible says

As moses lifted the serpent. So shall the son of man be lifted up. That whoever believes (has faith) in him wil never perish, but has eternal life (born again) for God so loved the world. He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth (has faith) in him Shall not perish, but has eternal life (is born again) For I was not sent to judge the world. But so the world might be saved, Whoever believes (has faith) is not condemned. Whoever believe th not is condemned already.

If you think we are born again BEFORE we believe or have faith. You are mistaken..

Redemption was paid by the blood of the lamb on the cross.

but he will not forc e that redemption on you. or give it to you if you do not want it.

He wants to like the people of israel did, to trust him. And look up.. just as they were saved. If you do this, you too will be saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, etc all said what I’m telling you. Simply put, faith without works is dead. James said it most concisely.

God bless.

You do not get it

James stated a fat. There is NO SUCH thing as faiht without works.

Your issue is, We are saved by faith. NOT WORKS.. works do not save you.. Faith does. And Faith produces works.

Grace saved us because our work can not save us, if it could. We would be saved by the law..

You want to try to work to earn salvation. COntinue, but know this, God will reject your works.. Because you reject his grace.