Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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Thats how Grace and Faith works, Faith is the product of Grace. Believers , we believe because of Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
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Its the Truth. Its of Faith that it may be by[according to] Grace Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
How did he make clear they had a choice - there was no choice given by that - you are incorrectly inferring something into it that isn't there. Instead, Paul is making visible that which is spiritual and telling them to follow it. Those born again hear and obey because they're born-again -they learn from it and understand - the others don't. For those not born-again who don't follow it, it demonstrates further evidence against them of their violation of God's commands. Repentance is a gift that can only be given by God. No one can do so of themselves.
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, which is described as a seed that falls on different types of soil, but regardless of where the seed lands, it is God Who gives the growth. The outworking of the Holy Spirit of God upon a person's heart, mind, and soul is not going to be the same for every single person. In my own life, I would say that faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief. Through the course of my life, the Seed of God's Word fell upon me many many many times before that happened.
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I agree with your pejorative assessment. And it's very common here among quite a few.
It appears to be a tactic employed to discredit those they accuse of being Calvinist so to take the attention away from the fact most accusers aren't biblically literate. Or, their predilection for personal interpolation of scripture goes unnoticed for the accusation.
It appears to be a tactic employed to discredit those they accuse of being Calvinist so to take the attention away from the fact most accusers aren't biblically literate. Or, their predilection for personal interpolation of scripture goes unnoticed for the accusation.
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John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life, and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.
You are interpreting the word "perish" to mean that they will not inherit heaven, which would say that when they are saved eternally, and then could lose their eternal salvation, everlasting means never ending, and that would contradict many scriptures, including; John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, and many more.
Perish=death=separate. Those in 2 Pet 3:9, who have obtained like precious faith, when they commit a sin, separate themselves from God's fellowship, until they repent. but they never lose their promise of an eternal inheritance.
All of the scriptures, old testament, and new testament, must harmonize if you are to understand the truth of the gospel.
You are interpreting the word "perish" to mean that they will not inherit heaven, which would say that when they are saved eternally, and then could lose their eternal salvation, everlasting means never ending, and that would contradict many scriptures, including; John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, and many more.
Perish=death=separate. Those in 2 Pet 3:9, who have obtained like precious faith, when they commit a sin, separate themselves from God's fellowship, until they repent. but they never lose their promise of an eternal inheritance.
All of the scriptures, old testament, and new testament, must harmonize if you are to understand the truth of the gospel.
I have been on other forums, and they all do it, if you stand upon certain scriptures in defense of the truth of the gospel.
I have never read any of Calvin's writings, or any other man's interpretations of the scriptures. I believe that scripture proves scripture, if all scriptures are taken into consideration. I get accused of being a calvinist, no matter what forum that I am on.
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I do not believe God chooses who will be saved and not saved without their choice because God's kingdom is true love and He is not evil to condemn a person that has no choice but to be lost.
If you program your computer to say I love you does your computer truly love you, and if you program your computer to say I hate you will you get mad and smash it to pieces.
And what criteria would God choose some people and not other people when all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is no one good, no, not one, and if you break the least of the law you have broken them all, and God is no respecter of persons, and what makes you differ from another person, and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile.
Also God said He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, and He is the Savior of all men, and the Spirit and bride say Come, and any person that wants that salvation can have that salvation.
The Bible says God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
I believe when the Bible says the saints are predestined to salvation it means that God already had the plan to give salvation to mankind before He laid down the foundation of the Earth so it is the same as if the saints have salvation in the beginning but this salvation is for all people.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished before the foundation of the world.
Although they were future events.
The man Christ Jesus prayed to the Father for the saints to be where He is going and to receive the same glory and behold His glory which He had from the beginning.
Which He was not praying as God for the saints cannot receive that glory but He was praying as the man Christ Jesus for the saints to have eternal life and a glorified body and behold Him on the throne in heaven.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
All things were created by Him and without Him nothing was created that was created.
In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation, and that plan was God manifest in flesh.
All things were created by Him and without the plan of God coming in flesh He would of not created anything for Jesus is the reason that creation is successful to judge the angels and people and to give eternal life.
Which Jesus is the beginning of creation even though He was not born until 4000 years later for God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened.
I believe the saints predestined to salvation means that God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning but this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation.
For we have to have a choice because God's kingdom is true love and if we do not have a choice then God's kingdom is not true love for we have no choice but to love God seeing no other alternative.
We did not choose God but He chose us.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.
No person calls Jesus the Lord but by the Holy Spirit.
Many are called but few are chosen.
When God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth but when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to walk through it because God's kingdom is true love but they would of not got to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life for the flesh will not come to the truth on its own for in the flesh dwells no good thing.
God's kingdom is true love so and He is not evil to condemn people who do not have the choice so we have to have a choose in our salvation and all people get the chance for God is no respecter of persons and He is the Savior of all men.
The Jews that did not abide by the Old Testament covenant were cut off from Israel because they were disobedient.
Romans 11 says after a person is saved if they do not continue in the goodness of God then they will be cut off like the Jews that were cut off for being disobedient.
A person that is saved has to strive to be Christlike representing goodness and if they go back to doing things of the world which is sin then they are like a sow that was cleaned but goes back to wallowing in the mud and it would have been better if they had not known the truth at all than to know the truth and turn from it.
The Jews that were disobedient when Israel was in the wilderness were cut off from Israel which the Bible says take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God but exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
It is the same as the Old Testament concerning our obedience to God and representing goodness but some people try to make it relaxed to where many people do not measure up for they think they are alright despite holding on to sin because they think they cannot fall.
But the Bible says if you think you stand take heed lest you fall.
A person can be saved and fall away and lose salvation if they do not strive to be Christlike and enjoy sin and fleshy pleasures holding on to them living in sin.
Which the Bible says that if we sin wilfully after having received the knowledge of the truth that God hates sin and wants us to turn from sin there is no more sacrifice for that sin.
Which means if we hold on to sin then the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away for God will not take a sin away from us that we hold on to.
People that claim Christ but hold on to sin want to enjoy sin and not be Christlike and are led of the flesh.
Which the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse to not act Christlike.
But we still can sin if we choose to sin but if we sin we should stop doing it and not want it anymore, and not hold on to it and move forward in the Spirit.
For I doubt any person that was saved abstained from sin completely until they left the Earth which Paul got in Peter's face and said he did not walk uprightly according to the truth.
But they are saved because when they sinned they turned from it and went forward in the Spirit and did not make a habit of holding on to sin which a person that is led of the Spirit will have a great chance at wanting to not sin and do what is good and not give in to temptation to sin, and a Spirit led life if they do sin will be small sins and not serious sins that offend a person.
The thing that a lot of people who claim Christianity lack in is not caring about the poor and needy for they like to enjoy money and material things.
The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy and love is the fulfilling of the law.
Some people have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof and are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that they have to allow the Spirit to lead them and not hold on to sin but they believe they are alright even though they hold on to sin.
Which the Bible says there will be a lot of hypocrites at the last days so there are many that are holding on to sin and believing it does not affect their relationship with God.
If you program your computer to say I love you does your computer truly love you, and if you program your computer to say I hate you will you get mad and smash it to pieces.
And what criteria would God choose some people and not other people when all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is no one good, no, not one, and if you break the least of the law you have broken them all, and God is no respecter of persons, and what makes you differ from another person, and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile.
Also God said He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, and He is the Savior of all men, and the Spirit and bride say Come, and any person that wants that salvation can have that salvation.
The Bible says God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
I believe when the Bible says the saints are predestined to salvation it means that God already had the plan to give salvation to mankind before He laid down the foundation of the Earth so it is the same as if the saints have salvation in the beginning but this salvation is for all people.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished before the foundation of the world.
Although they were future events.
The man Christ Jesus prayed to the Father for the saints to be where He is going and to receive the same glory and behold His glory which He had from the beginning.
Which He was not praying as God for the saints cannot receive that glory but He was praying as the man Christ Jesus for the saints to have eternal life and a glorified body and behold Him on the throne in heaven.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
All things were created by Him and without Him nothing was created that was created.
In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation, and that plan was God manifest in flesh.
All things were created by Him and without the plan of God coming in flesh He would of not created anything for Jesus is the reason that creation is successful to judge the angels and people and to give eternal life.
Which Jesus is the beginning of creation even though He was not born until 4000 years later for God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened.
I believe the saints predestined to salvation means that God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning but this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation.
For we have to have a choice because God's kingdom is true love and if we do not have a choice then God's kingdom is not true love for we have no choice but to love God seeing no other alternative.
We did not choose God but He chose us.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.
No person calls Jesus the Lord but by the Holy Spirit.
Many are called but few are chosen.
When God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth but when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to walk through it because God's kingdom is true love but they would of not got to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life for the flesh will not come to the truth on its own for in the flesh dwells no good thing.
God's kingdom is true love so and He is not evil to condemn people who do not have the choice so we have to have a choose in our salvation and all people get the chance for God is no respecter of persons and He is the Savior of all men.
The Jews that did not abide by the Old Testament covenant were cut off from Israel because they were disobedient.
Romans 11 says after a person is saved if they do not continue in the goodness of God then they will be cut off like the Jews that were cut off for being disobedient.
A person that is saved has to strive to be Christlike representing goodness and if they go back to doing things of the world which is sin then they are like a sow that was cleaned but goes back to wallowing in the mud and it would have been better if they had not known the truth at all than to know the truth and turn from it.
The Jews that were disobedient when Israel was in the wilderness were cut off from Israel which the Bible says take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God but exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
It is the same as the Old Testament concerning our obedience to God and representing goodness but some people try to make it relaxed to where many people do not measure up for they think they are alright despite holding on to sin because they think they cannot fall.
But the Bible says if you think you stand take heed lest you fall.
A person can be saved and fall away and lose salvation if they do not strive to be Christlike and enjoy sin and fleshy pleasures holding on to them living in sin.
Which the Bible says that if we sin wilfully after having received the knowledge of the truth that God hates sin and wants us to turn from sin there is no more sacrifice for that sin.
Which means if we hold on to sin then the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away for God will not take a sin away from us that we hold on to.
People that claim Christ but hold on to sin want to enjoy sin and not be Christlike and are led of the flesh.
Which the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse to not act Christlike.
But we still can sin if we choose to sin but if we sin we should stop doing it and not want it anymore, and not hold on to it and move forward in the Spirit.
For I doubt any person that was saved abstained from sin completely until they left the Earth which Paul got in Peter's face and said he did not walk uprightly according to the truth.
But they are saved because when they sinned they turned from it and went forward in the Spirit and did not make a habit of holding on to sin which a person that is led of the Spirit will have a great chance at wanting to not sin and do what is good and not give in to temptation to sin, and a Spirit led life if they do sin will be small sins and not serious sins that offend a person.
The thing that a lot of people who claim Christianity lack in is not caring about the poor and needy for they like to enjoy money and material things.
The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy and love is the fulfilling of the law.
Some people have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof and are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that they have to allow the Spirit to lead them and not hold on to sin but they believe they are alright even though they hold on to sin.
Which the Bible says there will be a lot of hypocrites at the last days so there are many that are holding on to sin and believing it does not affect their relationship with God.
Yes, that's where I expect a lot of this issue comes from and I need to look into it deeper. God did not divorce the Jews, nor Israel. He made an unconditional covenant with them and there are still promises He had yet to keep. The church does not replace the Jews, that is false doctrine. Romans 11 is the backup to that statement.
That's up to you, but I don't think you have a clear understanding of what you think you believe. That being said, if I see some thing you post that seems wrong I will still ask about it.
For someone being dead in sin, they can make no choice but to remain dead in sin. For it to be otherwise,
God must intervene. Those who are lost (the unbelievers), unless God had chosen them to be saved, they are condemned already.
[Jhn 3:18 KJV] 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God must intervene. Those who are lost (the unbelievers), unless God had chosen them to be saved, they are condemned already.
[Jhn 3:18 KJV] 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
I believe that he is wrong in his assertion. There are many of spiritual Israel, who have turned away from God, and are serving idols, and God has blinded them from seeing the truth, until they repent, but they still have the promise of their eternal inheritance.
There is a remnant of Israel that has been given the truth, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, and have a responsibility to teach the lost sheep of the house of Israel, praying that they might repent (Zeph 3:11-13).