No one has stated Calvinists are not Christians.
They are just wrong on a lot of things.
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
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No one has stated Calvinists are not Christians.
They are just wrong on a lot of things.
It is not perjorative either. It is just an easy name to use for a school of thought.
I cannot help it if that school of thought is wrong in many of their interpretations.
On the flip side, BF52 has stated that people who do not accept the "doctrines of grace" are antichrists.
Well, I don't know what to say about your comment. How can a Christian not believe that Christ
alone, who is clearly identified in the Bible as the Saviour, not be the one who saves in all possible ways,
not leaving anything to the recipient of His gift to fulfill to acquire it? That is the "school of thought" you
say is wrong. How can that not be the absolute foundation of the Bible?
It has always amazed me how this "system" creates this defensiveness, there is a psychological component to the appeal of this school of thought.
Sorry but faith comes with Grace which is a Gift and not of ourselves. Thats Biblical
Faith is not a gift it is an open hand receiving the gift which is salvation.
Recognizing that a person is able to do nothing but accept the gift (through faith) does not make the Saviour less than who He is and what He has accomplished on the behalf of all humanity.
In fact heaven states there is rejoicing. This is what He wants.
When you make an argument faith is a gift, you have the problem of why does God not give this gift to everyone?
The typical Calvinist answer, they were not chosen and God is sovereign and He can do what He wants.
So basically God is elitist.
There are different types of love. But no, they cannot love as God does with agape love.
Unsaved people have natural abilities. They lack spirituality. They can walk...but not in the Spirit. They can talk...but not to God. They can love...but the love of God is not shed abroad in their hearts.
They operate only in the natural world.
Luke 18:
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
He went to his house justified AFTER he asked God for mercy.
Anyone has the capacity to believe the gospel.
Elitist makes no sense because He is God and as such is sovereign and has the prerogative to choose how/whom He will.
Otherwise, grace simply cannot exist: true grace cannot exist in the absence of election - each requires the other.
Anything that someone needs to do to complement or to complete what Christ has already achieved, in effect, is saying
that you believe that Christ is not the Saviour. You can't have it both ways - He either fully is and anything short of that is that He is not.
Giving an "invitation" does not constitute a Saviour acting as a Saviour.
See the post directly before yours. It explains the inward previous act of God that led to such an event.
I'm not asking you to accept it, but please consider it.
God chooses people who choose Him.
That's simply not true.
This is once again your skewed definition of "Savior."
The post directly before mine is the post I was replying to.
God wants everyone to be saved. If there is an "inward previous act of God," then God does it for everyone.
I appreciate your kindness.
I have considered it. I reject it.
It simply is completely true. Saying that a Saviour is a Saviour cannot be "skewed"
A Saviour MUST SAVE, period, otherwise His title would not be appropriate.
If becoming saved is based upon our choosing of Him, then beyond question, we would have saved ourselves - making us our
own saviour, not Christ. But we know the Bible is abundantly clear and unambitious in that Christ alone absolutely is the Savour
and that we are not.
Christ saves people when they choose to believe the gospel. The offer of salvation is extended to everyone. People can accept it or reject it.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
That means you don't believe Christ is the Saviour. Did Saul (Paul) avail himself of an offer from Christ of salvation to become saved, or did God just make it to happen to him? Did Saul say to God, "well thanks for your offer, Jesus, but I think I'll pass on it for now - maybe later"? A Saviour is truly a Saviour when He saves those who don't want His salvation, which, before becoming saved, none of us do, because we trust in ourselves and in our own works. By our unsaved nature, we believe that we can anoint ourselves as the kingmaker.
19 “So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. 20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.
Paul makes it clear he made a choice.
I do believe Christ is the Savior. So there...
Jesus personally witnessed to Paul. I think that would sway about anyone.
Paul could have walked away...
A Savior is someone who saves, which is exactly what Jesus does when we choose to believe the gospel.
Sorry. I must have been referring to another thread. I was actually referring to Luke 15. It is a parable with 3 parts. The first is about the shepherd who gets the sheep, the second about the cleaning and lightening to find the coin, and lastly the prodigal that most are very familiar with.
The parable demonstrates that the entire godhead is part of salvation. The work of Christ in saving, the work of the Spirit in enlightening and cleansing, and then the application to the individual as the Father draws.
In your story of the publican, only the final step is shown.
I believe the other 2 would have been done before this. They simply aren't necessary to express in the story of the publican because God isn't explaining the outworking of salvation but what genuine repentance consists of. One was an outward show of piety. The other, an inward, spiritual reality.