Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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We all make choices. I usually choose to obey God. Sometimes I don't.
When I don't, I do invite the chastening hand of God into my life, but I don't lose my salvation.
If someone viewed my life at a time when I was struggling with temptation and sin, they might conclude I had no faith. Would they be right?
When I don't, I do invite the chastening hand of God into my life, but I don't lose my salvation.
If someone viewed my life at a time when I was struggling with temptation and sin, they might conclude I had no faith. Would they be right?
The chosen, the elect are the Jews. It's talking about how the two have become one through Christ. Those who were far away were the Gentiles but God has grafted us in. It's talking about how Gentiles are now a part of the fold and how both Jew and Gentile are one body. I don't think that is the same as you originally stated, unless I have missed something.
Yes, perhaps that is how you understand it. But I'm not sure that's how Calvin saw it, and I would say it's his POV that we are discussing. My understanding is that God chose who would be elect and who wouldn't. So then my question would make sense.
Romans 9 is talking about nations, it's not talking about individual people.
But you are contradicting yourself. God is not will that any should perish, but He won't stop them from choosing that path. Just because Peter's audience happen to be saved doesn't change the fact that it's His wish that no one perish and all come to Him.
Yes, perhaps that is how you understand it. But I'm not sure that's how Calvin saw it, and I would say it's his POV that we are discussing. My understanding is that God chose who would be elect and who wouldn't. So then my question would make sense.
Romans 9 is talking about nations, it's not talking about individual people.
But you are contradicting yourself. God is not will that any should perish, but He won't stop them from choosing that path. Just because Peter's audience happen to be saved doesn't change the fact that it's His wish that no one perish and all come to Him.
I think if I was a learned elder hoping to disciple another person who was struggling with sin and temptation I would first make sure
they can clearly explain the Gospel and if I believed they had a strong testimony, I would then counsel them on walking in the Spirit,
reminding him/her of their true nature in Christ and leaning into the sanctification they have and Grace God promised to each believer.
they can clearly explain the Gospel and if I believed they had a strong testimony, I would then counsel them on walking in the Spirit,
reminding him/her of their true nature in Christ and leaning into the sanctification they have and Grace God promised to each believer.
Loadship salvation/Calvinism is bondage and creates angry people.
It has a God who
refuses to grant the reprobates the ability to repent to His own appeals and then judges them for their unwillingness to repent in light of Christ’s own word.
I will keep the sovereign God of scripture who is not a hater of humanity.
It has a God who
refuses to grant the reprobates the ability to repent to His own appeals and then judges them for their unwillingness to repent in light of Christ’s own word.
I will keep the sovereign God of scripture who is not a hater of humanity.
That's a great response and thanks for it. But it was just a rhetorical question. I don't believe our works are a good barometer of faith.
I do, however, believe the work that God does in me is. While motives for apparent works can be seen only by God, works of God in me are able to be witnessed by all and can only be ascribed to God.
I do, however, believe the work that God does in me is. While motives for apparent works can be seen only by God, works of God in me are able to be witnessed by all and can only be ascribed to God.
God divorced the nation of Israel. The Jews are now the spiritual Jews - the elect based upon God choosing of people individually, not the physical Jews - the day of their special relationship with God is long over.
We aren't talking Calvin we are talking the Bible.
Look, we are way too far apart to continue this conversation in any reasonable manner, so I don't see any benefit in continuing it.
We aren't talking Calvin we are talking the Bible.
Look, we are way too far apart to continue this conversation in any reasonable manner, so I don't see any benefit in continuing it.
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You have no understanding of Calvinism.
You might want to take time off line and commit to reading the old testament. There you will find God does hate. Much.
''“Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. “I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them.''
''The Lord God has sworn by Himself, the Lord God of hosts has declared: “I loathe the arrogance of Jacob, And detest his citadels; Therefore I will deliver up the city and all it contains.”
''There are six things which the Lord hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.''
'' The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.''
'' And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.''
''Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.''
You might want to take time off line and commit to reading the old testament. There you will find God does hate. Much.
''“Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. “I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them.''
''The Lord God has sworn by Himself, the Lord God of hosts has declared: “I loathe the arrogance of Jacob, And detest his citadels; Therefore I will deliver up the city and all it contains.”
''There are six things which the Lord hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.''
'' The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.''
'' And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.''
''Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.''
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Something I've noticed here is when we hold to what scriptures teach and without altering their message to fit our preference, we're accused of being Calvinists.
It appears to be a tactic meant to imply we're not Christian,without making that accusation outright.
And also what I've noticed is those who make the allegation dont know what Calvinism actually teaches.
Have you also noticed this?
It appears to be a tactic meant to imply we're not Christian,without making that accusation outright.
And also what I've noticed is those who make the allegation dont know what Calvinism actually teaches.
Have you also noticed this?
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Faith is a Gift out of Grace which both are feminine in Eph 2:8 Now do you deny that Grace is a Gift ? Scripture says believers had believed because of Grace which is a Gift Acts 18:27
And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace
So that argument is a strawman, Faith is a Gift from Grace. Grace is a Gift of God Eph 3:7
Whereof I was made a minister/believer, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Now if you deny this, then you say Faith/believing is of yourself and not of Grace, which makes you promote salvation through your flesh.
And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace
So that argument is a strawman, Faith is a Gift from Grace. Grace is a Gift of God Eph 3:7
Whereof I was made a minister/believer, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Now if you deny this, then you say Faith/believing is of yourself and not of Grace, which makes you promote salvation through your flesh.
Oh, I have absolutely noticed that. The charge of Calvinism is often blanketly used as pejorative to discount our biblical understanding and reduce our creditability even before the point we're making is examined - in other words, we're already wrong just starting out.
The annoying thing is that as of yet, I don't recall any of us using or quoting Calvin in our posts - only the Bible.
But that's okay because I truly believe that in a vast majority of cases, our biblical perceptions are correct and theirs are not.
So, I've come to expect unwarranted criticism in our setting forth of Christ as the Saviour and the individual not (wow what a radical concept to express on a Christian site), because the Bible warns of that happening.
The annoying thing is that as of yet, I don't recall any of us using or quoting Calvin in our posts - only the Bible.
But that's okay because I truly believe that in a vast majority of cases, our biblical perceptions are correct and theirs are not.
So, I've come to expect unwarranted criticism in our setting forth of Christ as the Saviour and the individual not (wow what a radical concept to express on a Christian site), because the Bible warns of that happening.
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