Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
You get so emotional....My answer is found nowhere in the Bible? not sure what to make of that lol but no my ramblings arn't, but Jesus answer is fortunately for us

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Thomas was alone in that regard. No one else ever directly called Jesus that so it’s descriptive of what Thomas did rather than prescriptive. The author of John, in verse 31, said Jesus is the Son of God.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
Thomas was alone in that regard. No one else ever directly called Jesus that so it’s descriptive of what Thomas did rather than prescriptive. The author of John, in verse 31, said Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus did not correct him..

So in allowing Thomas to call jesus God and Jesus said blessed are you because you believe that. If Jesus was nto God. Jesus sinned.

Try to think once in awhile. And realise how your doctrine destroys scripture..
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Thomas was alone in that regard. No one else ever directly called Jesus that so it’s descriptive of what Thomas did rather than prescriptive. The author of John, in verse 31, said Jesus is the Son of God.
God said it

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
God said it

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Read the next verse. It says the Son has a God.

Hebrews 1
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Jesus did not correct him..

So in allowing Thomas to call jesus God and Jesus said blessed are you because you believe that. If Jesus was nto God. Jesus sinned.

Try to think once in awhile. And realise how your doctrine destroys scripture..
Jesus didn’t instruct him to do that. Many times Jesus didn’t either confirm or deny something, or at least it wasn’t recorded.

However, to Peter’s answer, calling Jesus the Messiah and the Son of God, being something revealed from heaven, we can safely conclude that since Thomas’ answer wasn’t the same as Peter’s answer then Thomas’ answer wasn’t from heaven. This is just basic Bible hermeneutics.

Thomas and the Pharisees aren’t good people to base your beliefs off of. Thomas was a doubter and the Pharisees just had no idea what they were talking about.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
Jesus didn’t instruct him to do that. Many times Jesus didn’t either confirm or deny something, or at least it wasn’t recorded.

However, to Peter’s answer, calling Jesus the Messiah and the Son of God, being something revealed from heaven, we can safely conclude that since Thomas’ answer wasn’t the same as Peter’s answer then Thomas’ answer wasn’t from heaven. This is just basic Bible hermeneutics.
Jesus did not instruct him to do anything

Thomas Called Jesus God

Jesus said blessed are you because you believe this

in failing to correct him, He confirmed what he said was true

Jesus was the messiah, he was the son of God. He is the alpha and Omega. The great I am His name is wonderful, councilor mighty God

Why are you trying to twist things and make it appear jesus did not do what he did?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Jesus did not instruct him to do anything

Thomas Called Jesus God

Jesus said blessed are you because you believe this

in failing to correct him, He confirmed what he said was true

Jesus was the messiah, he was the son of God. He is the alpha and Omega. The great I am His name is wonderful, councilor mighty God

Why are you trying to twist things and make it appear jesus did not do what he did?
that’s not it. Here’s what it says:

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Thomas believed once he saw Jesus. Those who have not seen Jesus, but believe, are the blessed ones, not Thomas.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
that’s not it. Here’s what it says:

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Thomas believed once he saw Jesus. Those who have not seen Jesus, but believe, are the blessed ones, not Thomas.
Thomas called Him my lord and my God

Jesus did not correct him
You can spin it until you are blue in the face, you are still wrong

He said blessed are they who believe, believe what?

That Jesus is Lord and God

it would be like me accuse you of being and SDA, and you not denying you are SDA, but saying blessed are you because you believe…

You do not deny being an SDA so in fact you admitted you are SDA (not saying you are, I have no idea. Just using it as an example)
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Thomas called Him my lord and my God

Jesus did not correct him
You can spin it until you are blue in the face, you are still wrong

He said blessed are they who believe, believe what?

That Jesus is Lord and God

it would be like me accuse you of being and SDA, and you not denying you are SDA, but saying blessed are you because you believe…

You do not deny being an SDA so in fact you admitted you are SDA (not saying you are, I have no idea. Just using it as an example)
It’s not a twist or turn so I am literally exerting little, if any, effort here. Just showing what the Bible says. Jesus said those who have not seen and believe are the blessed ones, so that wouldn’t be Thomas being praised for his answer.
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Read the next verse. It says the Son has a God.

Hebrews 1
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
Fundamental doctrine is there is one God, How does an invisible Spirit choose to reveal himself to man when God is Love
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Fundamental doctrine is there is one God, How does an invisible Spirit choose to reveal himself to man when God is Love
Here’s another thing. Hebrews 1:8,9 quotes Psalm 45.

Psalm 45 is talking about a human king in verse 1. Verse 2, blessed by God. Verse 9 he has a wife. Jesus doesn’t have a wife and God doesn’t have a wife either. This is talking about someone else.
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Here’s another thing. Hebrews 1:8,9 quotes Psalm 45.

Psalm 45 is talking about a human king in verse 1. Verse 2, blessed by God. Verse 9 he has a wife. Jesus doesn’t have a wife and God doesn’t have a wife either. This is talking about someone else.
We haven't moved to another thing..... You ignored God Saying "But unto the Son he saith"

I think you are just pitting scripture against scripture at this point
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
We haven't moved to another thing..... You ignored God Saying "But unto the Son he saith"

I think you are just pitting scripture against scripture at this point
Probably a translation problem. Does the Bible teacher that God, that is Lord God Almighty, has a God too?
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Oh I love Jesus so much it brings me to tears sometimes. I don’t tell this story often, but I believe I’ve actually seen Jesus. The last time I shared something like that here I think someone proceeded to blaspheme God so I try not to say it too much. But I don’t mind sharing it with you since you seem cool.
Does it make you want to feed his sheep? Well if it was Jesus you saw you would definitely know so maybe that is a problem, Scripture says about angels pretending to be angels of light and warns about worshiping them

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Does it make you want to feed his sheep? Well if it was Jesus you saw you would definitely know so maybe that is a problem, Scripture says about angels pretending to be angels of light and warns about worshiping them

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Okay I regret sharing my testimony with you. I didn’t expect you to immediately cast doubt on it and try to discredit it. I won’t go into greater detail about why I believe I saw Jesus.
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Probably a translation problem. Does the Bible teacher that God, that is Lord God Almighty, has a God too?
Probably a runningmans dictionary problem, God through with his word spoke everything into creation, Its more how the creature reacts to his word
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Okay I regret sharing my testimony with you. I didn’t expect you to immediately cast doubt on it and try to discredit it. I won’t go into greater detail about why I believe I saw Jesus.
Don't regret it it was just a warning, I don't know what you saw but i am sure if it was Jesus you would know, why not share it and see what i say, and if i reject it you can get on your high horse and call persecution, if not i may learn something
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Probably a runningmans dictionary problem, God through with his word spoke everything into creation, Its more how the creature reacts to his word
Unlikely. God doesn’t have a God. The Bible has translation issues and the biggest hint is that the Psalm 45 that Hebrews 1:8,9 refers to talks about him marrying a foreign wife.

Look at more things Hebrews 1 says:

5For to which of the angels did God ever say:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father”?

13Yet to which of the angels did God ever say:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet”?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Don't regret it it was just a warning, I don't know what you saw but i am sure if it was Jesus you would know, why not share it and see what i say, and if i reject it you can get on your high horse and call persecution, if not i may learn something
I prayed and asked God if I could see Jesus one day. Kinda forgot all about it, but in the morning I saw something moving next to my bed, like a cloud or something like mist. I was just looking at it when suddenly a man’s face appeared in it. He just looked at me. Seemed to have a normal demeanor; not sad, or happy, or angry. Just looked in my eyes. He had a certain sincerity about him though. Didn’t say anything and in a flash he was gone.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
Unlikely. God doesn’t have a God. The Bible has translation issues and the biggest hint is that the Psalm 45 that Hebrews 1:8,9 refers to talks about him marrying a foreign wife.

Look at more things Hebrews 1 says:

5For to which of the angels did God ever say:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father”?

13Yet to which of the angels did God ever say:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet”?
Could the foreign bride be the Gentile church...which is the bride of Christ?